Star Wars WEG D6 - The Force Point - "Is it a good thing?"

[Celebrim]

But how to graft this on WEG D6, I have no clue, if it's even something you like or could see working.

If I ever get ahold of the D6 IP or get drafted as the lead designer on a new edition of D6 Star Wars I will definitely take those ideas into account. It's a more narrative mechanic than was common back in 1987 when the game was designed, but I can definitely see having a tension meter that scales up how powerful a force point is to encourage saving them until the scene becomes more desperate. I'm not familiar with Blades in the Dark beyond reading the rules, but I feel there is a somewhat similar mechanic there that is nagging me on the edge of my conscious. Maybe it's some other game but I feel like there is a game that as the consequences of failure ramp up, the players abilities effectively ramp up to face the challenges.

 

[billd91]

But in play, what tends to actually happen is the PC protagonist efficiently attacks the exhaust port first before anyone else has died on the suicide mission and efficiently uses that force point first time to land the shot first time before Darth Vader is even in the air, and while that is conceptually the same thing the dramatic experience of it is very different. What am I supposed to do about that? Punish the player for being efficiently heroic and not getting everyone killed?

I mean, how dare those players go off script, right, and not build up dramatic tension? I guess the solution is to not depend on dramatic tension or narrate the dramatic effects and consequences on the NPCs who all died on the suicide mission while the PC was focused on exerting the force point and blowing the exhaust port. Just because they drove right to the mechanical resolution doesn't mean that there weren't other things going on at the same time that would have ended up on the silver screen. And now, thanks to their succinct resolution, they've given you free hand to narrate it all out.

Alternatively, if this is a mission-ending use of a force point that would otherwise occur after a suitable amount of building tension, charge the whole involved PC group for spending the force point. It's their mission collectively, right? And this potential ending action is for the whole enchilada. They've all got a stake in it, they should all pay. Then give the other players a chance to do suitable force-boosted heroics wherever they are as Luke dives into the trench to blow the exhaust port (such as Han and Chewie appear, achieve complete surprise over a force-sensitive ace pilot, and shoot accurately enough to completely neutralize him - sounds like they both spent their force points to me).
And if the rest of the party doesn't have the force points to spend, require them to play the suicide mission out until they earn them.

 

[Celebrim]

I mean, how dare those players go off script, right, and not build up dramatic tension?

Not sure what your point is.

(such as Han and Chewie appear, achieve complete surprise over a force-sensitive ace pilot, and shoot accurately enough to completely neutralize him - sounds like they both spent their force points to me)

Me too. Still not sure what your point is.

 

[Staffan]

If I ever get ahold of the D6 IP or get drafted as the lead designer on a new edition of D6 Star Wars I will definitely take those ideas into account. It's a more narrative mechanic than was common back in 1987 when the game was designed, but I can definitely see having a tension meter that scales up how powerful a force point is to encourage saving them until the scene becomes more desperate.

West End Games, with Greg Costikyan, Bill Slavicsek, and Greg Gorden were really ahead of their time when it came to narrative mechanics in mainstream RPGs. Star Wars has some of it, but look at TORG: Possibilities letting you boost rolls, Drama cards that not only give bonuses to various things but can also add sub-plots to the game, adventures divided into acts and scenes, and different genre conventions enforced as you move from one invading realm to another.

 

[Faolyn]

As to the idea of force points being a "win button" -- my method means the bad guys get win buttons too.

I remember Dark Side points, although I don't recall if the GM got to use them as well, or just PCs to do naughty things.

 

[Celebrim]

West End Games, with Greg Costikyan, Bill Slavicsek, and Greg Gorden were really ahead of their time when it came to narrative mechanics in mainstream RPGs. Star Wars has some of it...

I really do love their work. They are very underrated and deserve the same sort of esteem as Gygax and Gregg Stafford and Sandy Petersen and Marc Miller and Frack Chadwick. I think so many of those early designers just don't get the credit they deserve.

That said, after 300 hours running the game its starting to wear thin on me places the way 1e AD&D did after enough years with it. It's just not clear to me yet what all needs tweaking. I've seen a lot of attempts at it, but I'm not convinced by most of them the same way I wasn't convinced by most tweaks of 1e AD&D until 3e D&D came along and proved to be what I was looking for.

I love the force point, but I am starting to wonder whether I know how to run the game for powerful PCs or if the system is just going to break. I am starting to feel like I did in the early 1990s with my house ruled AD&D where I'm holding everything together with too much thread.

but look at TORG: Possibilities letting you boost rolls, Drama cards that not only give bonuses to various things but can also add sub-plots to the game, adventures divided into acts and scenes, and different genre conventions enforced as you move from one invading realm to another.

I love reading rules and mining them for ideas to apply. I should probably look into those systems.

 

[Staffan]

I remember Dark Side points, although I don't recall if the GM got to use them as well, or just PCs to do naughty things.

Dark Side points in OG D6 were just a corruption mechanic. If you used a Force Point to do something evil, not only would it be lost permanently (to a minimum of 1) but you'd also gain a Dark Side point. Gaining a Dark Side point meant you had to roll a D6, and if you rolled below the number of Dark Side points you had (so the first one was "safe") you fell to the Dark Side and became an NPC.

Force Sensitive characters had it a bit tougher. They'd gain Dark Side points for any evil actions, force point-augmented or not. There were also several force powers that noted that using them directly called on the Dark Side and would automatically gain you one.

I think Dark Side points were expanded upon somewhere in the product line, but I have no idea where.

 

[Staffan]

I love reading rules and mining them for ideas to apply. I should probably look into those systems.

If TORG sounds fun, there's a more recent version called TORG: Eternity that is set in the current "near now" (or well, the "near now" of a few years back), not the "near now" of the early 90s. It fixes many of the mechanical issues of the original game, and has a slightly more serious angle on many things (e.g. more focus on the oppressive surveillance state in places like the Cyberpapacy, while also explaining why the People In Charge don't immediately know about problems like PCs the instant they pop up).

 

[Paul Farquhar]

minimal drama, because that's the motivation of players in any TTRPG

Really, no it isn't. That might be your players (in which case I would suggest a more grounded game) but "wining in the coolest and most dramatic way possible" is what my players aim for, and that's the style of play Star Wars D6 is designed for.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

as Han and Chewie appear, achieve complete surprise over a force-sensitive ace pilot, and shoot accurately enough to completely neutralize him - sounds like they both spent their force points to me

Absolutely. If Chewie's shot had been targeted at Vader it would have been sensed and avoided. It was clearly guided by the Force to hit the wing man instead. And, since Chewie isn't a jedi, in D6 rules that's what using a Force point represents.