Anyone seen these 7th level spells in action?

Dr_Rictus · Oct 4, 2002

Agreed. Limited Wish might not be the first 7th-level spell I'd pick for a sorcerer, but it would almost certainly be the second. Indespensible.

Nail · Oct 4, 2002

Re: Re: Re: Anyone seen these 7th level spells in action?

Ridley's Cohort said:
On the balance, a few hundred xp is far cheaper than than the cost of a Raise or True Ressurection.

It is really the perfect spell for a Sorceror. You wouldn't want to use it all the time, but it is fabulous for emergencies.

Uhmmm.....sure.......but Sorcerers are not built to handle occasional emergencies. They need spells that they can use alot of, all the time. Haste, for example. Domination, for another.

Limited Wish is way too expensive for multiple uses per day (or week, for that matter). Why waste the slot on something yer only going to use once in a while?
[/i]
There are much better choices, even with 7th level spells.

Banishment (If yer DM uses lots of extra planar creatures ...a real problem at higher CRs.)
Spell Turning (solid defensive spell...but again, some campaigns might see less use of this...)
Power Word, Stun (Let the Fighter wear 'em down, then....take 'em out.)
Insanity (always a good idea)
Bigby's Grasping Hand (very versatile ...don't underestimate its uses in combat and out.)
Forcecage
Finger of Death
Ethereal Jaunt (For all of your scouting and trap by-passing needs.)
Reverse Gravity (Say it with me: No Save or SR!)

Thanee · Oct 4, 2002

Both of the wizards in our campaign (my arcane trickster and the loremaster) make extensive use of Limited Wish! Both of us have one of them prepared almost always!

Definitely a must-have spell! Even moreso for a sorcerer, with his limited spell selection!

300 XP is nothing at that level, you will hardly notice the loss, even if you use it once per evening (of course, we use the FRCS XP system).

BTW, the sorcerer can still use the 7th level slots for any other spells (and metamagic), it's not like he has to use Limited Wish with all of them all the time!

It's just a good insurance to have!

As for your second spell...

I'd not have chosen Summon Monster VI (any chance you can revert that decision, or upgrade it to Summon Monster VII?) as the 6th level has just too many great spells to choose from, and would take Summon Monster VII now (I think it's the first of the Summon Monster spells, which is really worth it).

If this is not an option, Teleport without Error could be nice to have, as you don't have Teleport.

Bye
Thanee

Shard O'Glase · Oct 4, 2002

Re: Re: Re: Re: Anyone seen these 7th level spells in action?

Nail said:
Uhmmm.....sure.......but Sorcerers are not built to handle occasional emergencies. They need spells that they can use alot of, all the time. Haste, for example. Domination, for another.

Limited Wish is way too expensive for multiple uses per day (or week, for that matter). Why waste the slot on something yer only going to use once in a while?
[/i]
There are much better choices, even with 7th level spells.

Banishment (If yer DM uses lots of extra planar creatures ...a real problem at higher CRs.)

Spell Turning (solid defensive spell...but again, some campaigns might see less use of this...)

Power Word, Stun (Let the Fighter wear 'em down, then....take 'em out.)

Insanity (always a good idea)

Bigby's Grasping Hand (very versatile ...don't underestimate its uses in combat and out.)

Forcecage

Finger of Death

Ethereal Jaunt (For all of your scouting and trap by-passing needs.)

Reverse Gravity (Say it with me: No Save or SR!)

The point is lesser wish allows you to circumvent the sorceres biggest weakness lack of versatility at a measly 300xp a pop. It is well worth it.
As for the spells you listed, banishment, generally not worth it even in high extra planar campaigns, just kill the thing and be done with it,

spell turning I wouldn't waste a 5th level slot on this spell much less a 7th, its effecs are cool with the big exception of it only working on a very small list of spells targeted spells on you and up to 1d6+4 in levels.

Power word stun this one rocks the no save part allows you to own low to medium HP creatures, giving the fighters the chance to do thier job and go on a killing spree.

Insanity sucks for a PC, confusion is jsut as good because all that matters is this fight. As a way to torment PCs its great.

bigby's it's good but I'd wait for the higher level ones unless i had a theme going.

forcecage, the 1500gp component is a high cost for such a specific spell.(how a sorcerer does this spell is beyond me since the 1500 gp is expended in the prep of the spell not the casting)

finger of death is always fun if your DM plays saves straight and doesn't pull the um he made the save routine every time it is a tough encounter.

ethereal jaunt leave it to the cleric there better at planar travel stuff for some moronic reason

reverse gravity, its area of effect seriosuly diminishes its power, the no save, so SR is nice but it only works on ground bound foes, generally big thugs where the no Sr is airly meaninglless. It can be fairly powerful, if comboed with some other spells though.

Really none of those stack up to lesser wishes ability to add much needed versatility to a sorcerers spells at the cost of 300xp a pop.

Personally I'd go with Teleport W/O error for the enxt spell on his list since he doesn't have teleport yet.

mkletch · Oct 4, 2002

gfunk said:
3. Mord's Sword -- seems okay to me, but +3 enhancement might not be useful for much longer. Also only one attack per round and SR applies . . .

Actually, a +3 gets you just about everything in the SRD except for the Solar. You really don't need more until epic levels or if you decide to go kill a deity.

gfunk said:
6. Spell Turning -- good choice, but one of our clerics has it already as a domain spell

Always an awesome choice.

-Fletch!

Iku Rex · Oct 5, 2002

gfunk said:
6. Spell Turning -- good choice, but one of our clerics has it already as a domain spell

I'd go with this one. And it has Range: Personal, so what does it matter if the cleric also has it?

Many of the really nasty spells are targeted, and with the 10min/level duration you can often cast spell turning before entering a dangerous situation.

Celtavian · Oct 5, 2002

Re

Pick up Magic of Faerun. There are alot of nice spells in that book. Also, Energy Immunity from the Tome and Blood is always nice as well. A 24 hour duration of complete immunity to a single type of energy is hard to beat.

James McMurray · Oct 5, 2002

Another great spell that hasn't been mentioned is Mordenkainen's Magnificent Mansion. Your party is now immune to night ambushes. The sorcerer in my game has it and its saved the party's lives more times than they even realize.

As for Limited Wish, I agree that it is the best 7th level spell for a sorcerer to choose. You can always use those slots for metamagivked lower-level spells. And you should have tons of metamagic feats.

James McMurray · Oct 5, 2002

For the record, here's my sorcerer's setup:

1: Glue Hypnotism Mage Armor Magic Missile Shield

2: Blazing Shield Cat's Grace Invisibility See Invisibility Tasha's Hideous Laughter

3: Displacement Fly Lightning Bolt Suggestion

4: Confusion Greater Magical Flow Enhancement Sacrifice Spell Scrying

5: Feeblemind Mordenkainen's Private Sanctum Teleport Wall of Force

6: Greater Dispelling Mass Haste Permanent Image

7: Limited Wish Mordenkainen's Magnificent Mansion Spell Turning

8: Mantle of Egregious Might Polymorph Any Object Primal Release

9: Arcana Form Gate

hong · Oct 5, 2002

James McMurray said:
Hypnotism Mage

Truly an excellent spell. It creates an illusionary mage who moves in a hypnotic manner, causing those who view it to make a save or lose a turn.

Magic Missile Shield

Indeed, no sorcerer would want to be without a magic missile shield.

Blazing Shield Cat's

Any spell that involves setting cats on fire =winnar to me!

Invisibility See Invisibility

See James. See James cast a spell. James, cast a spell. Damn, James is invisible.

Displacement Fly

This one has me puzzled.

Greater Magical Flow Enhancement

For those heavy flow days! A spell no modern sorcerer grrl should be without.

Sacrifice Spell Scrying

This is a great get-out-of-jail spell. Sure, scrying on spells is great, but sometimes, you have more pressing needs. Like getting yourself out of that fiendish dire bear's embrace.