Anyone thought up a non-epic spell seed system?

[Hakkenshi]

Hello all, I was simply hoping to get your opinion on the idea of creating a non-epic spell seed system for spellcasters (as the title of the topic states ).

Personally, I find the epic version to be quite intriguing, and more interesting in general than the traditional spell-level system. Don't get wrong, I'm not bashing the current system, just looking for a fun alternative.

Anyone have any ideas?

 

[ichabod]

I'm working on a rewrite of the epic spellcasting that might work at low levels even though I hadn't planned it that way.

Basically it works on caster level checks. I went through the seeds, figured out the spells that used that seed, and what level it was for what effect. Double the level for a modifier (0 level is +1). Make up modifiers for changing duration, casting time, area of effect, and such using metamagic feats as a guide. Add all of the modifiers to 10 for the DC of the caster level check. The DCs for simple effects would come out low enough for low level casters to get.

One thing I would worry about when using this for lower levels is the mitigating factors. If you allow things that lower the DC, low level casters might be able to gain high level effects by extending casting times. Also, a fifth level spell effect in my system would be DC 20. A first level caster could get that if he was really lucky. Now, if you stuck to a spellcraft system this would be less of a problem, as the bonuses are higher at lower levels. But then it tends to favor wizards.

 

[Hakkenshi]

Hmm...interesting.
I don't have the Epic-Level Handbook with me, but I was thinking of keeping the Spellcraft system and altering the whole level-based nature of spells. I think it could be done fairly easily, but then I don't have the book handy to back that theory up

 

[Ace]

You might try to Sovereign Stone system with a slight modification..

Just add 5 to the Casting Time number if you have spell notes and 10 if you have to improvise the whole thing.


Antoher option would be to adapt Ars Magica to D20 and allow Spell Seeds as skills.

You might have create and fire as skills more or less

To cast. You would roll as spells casting check aginst each seed

mastered spellswould be cast at a lower DC as an action and Improvised which take a full action, one partial action for each noun and verb basically.

Those improvised spells would have a higher DC of course

 

[Hakkenshi]

An interesting suggestion, Ace, but with two tiny problems:

1) I want to stick as closely as possible to ELH's system; I like the way it works.
2) I've never read Ars Magica

Another thing to keep in mind is that it has to be adaptable for every spellcaster, both arcane AND divine.

Still, thanks for the thoughts!

 

[CRG]

I'm actually one of those folks who, in general, really like ELH.

My single biggest beef is the dependency on Spellcraft or Religion and not caster level, and this primarily because one of the first chars I played was a sorcerer who really had no Spellcraft. I could see him getting on in years and power but not having more than a few ranks at Spellcraft.

I like the chatter about a divine/arcane caster level check. Nifty. Increase it +1 per level as an epic bonus or something. Who knows.

Otherwise, the basic seed system as it exists COULD work for lower level spells...you would have to add in more restrictive powers though (ie, make some ranged things touch, etc.). Might be fun to do...I'd be interested to read anything one of you put together.