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Message: <blockquote data-quote="MoogleEmpMog" data-source="post: 3879186" data-attributes="member: 22882">And spellcasters in Sword and Sorcery and pre-D&D Epic Fantasy (almost) only cast big, important spells that pretty much never stop a skilled warrior with a sword from shoving three feet of tempered steel through them.Extrapolating for playability at the tactical scale, just as was done with magic way back at the beginning of D&D, is what's called for - not scrapping an intriguing concept that aptly fills a difficult to pin down role/power source combination.Shu, perhaps not, since he does seem to be a pure thinker with no combat ability (although he does get close enough to the action to be endangered, as when he traps Leon).Salome in Sui3, while not Silverburg-trained, was Chris's strategist initially, and was also a front-line fighter.  Leilei, an apprentice strategist, was a front-line fighter in Sui5.  Only the really high-end Silverburg school strategists don't even have to involve themselves at the tactical level.I see the ability of characters like Shu and Mathiu to flat-out win a battle/complete a mission on the strength of their incredible plans as a per-day ability accessible only at the high Paragon or early Epic levels.  The martial equivalent to a wish spell, pretty much, albeit IIRC those aren't going to be around in their current form?Yet, how often does a Suikoden Strategist's plan have an effect that would be represented by a buff on his own troops?  Only once in a very great while.  The vast majority of Leon, Mathiu and especially Shu's plans seem to revolve around tricking the enemy into exposing a weakness, or exploiting an existing weakness, so that they will be easily defeated.Warlord = BufferStrategist = DebufferThat's the critical distinction from a game-mechanical standpoint.  The Warlord leads and inspires his allies (or plans for their success - we're not sure at this point).  The Strategist confuses and confounds his enemies.The Controller role seems to fit the concept of a Strategist acting at the skirmish level perfectly: he determines what actions enemies can reasonably take and where they can effectively move, uses 'offensive' techniques that debilitate (or possibly even harm) multiple targets, and debuffs.He doesn't buff very often, and when he does his buffs are situational.  He probably doesn't heal AT ALL (except insofar as everyone may have limited self-healing in 4e).I would break it down like this:The Wizard (arcane controller) is the best at multi-target effects that deal direct damage, and is also the best balanced, with lots of utility powers, some terrain powers and debuffs.The Druid (divine controller) is the best at terrain powers.  He can dictate enemy movement better than anyone and can take advantage of position.  He also has some direct multi-target damage and utility, but not many debuffs that don't involve movement restrictions.The Strategist (martial controller) is the best at debuffs.  He has decent movement related abilities and good abilities relying on exploiting existing positioning, but few or no direct damage powers.Let's step back from the Suikoden strategists, then.Since I know you'll recognize console RPG references, I can safely bring in a couple of others:1. Final Fantasy Tactics - The Mediator job class.  Nonmagical abilities used to debuff (and buff, admittedly), or even to get enemies to switch sides.2. Xenogears - Hyuga Ricdeau.  Hyuga often plans to exploit the weaknesses of his opponents and uses cunning to disrupt and defeat them (including, at times, as an anti-party character).  Yet he's clearly not a leader type, preferring to set events up behind the scenes and to defer to Emperor Cain and Queen Zephyr, and even to Bart when he's the one in a position of authority.I'm not thinking warlords are dumb, per say, just that being smart isn't their core schtick.</blockquote>

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