AoO for Unanticipated Movement?

[irdeggman]

Bull rush is a Move. A Move you share with a victim that also specifies the victim draws AoOs as well.

i strongly recommend not extending this to Falling, Telekinesis's Violent Thrust option, moving platforms of any nature or any other change of position that does not specify AoOs are drawn.

A bull rush is special attack action and not a move action.

BULL RUSH
You can make a bull rush as a standard action (an attack) or as part of a charge (see Charge, below).

Now if you succeed in the bull rush attempt you may elect to move with your opponent but the bull rush is not a move action since it is specifically a standard action (attack). I would say it was essentially amove actin following the standard action but that is not true since you can do a bull rush as part of a charge and still move with your opponent as part of the bull rush if successful (and normal movement limit is not exceeded).

Bull Rush Results: If you beat the defender’s Strength check result, you push him back 5 feet. If you wish to move with the defender, you can push him back an additional 5 feet for each 5 points by which your check result is greater than the defender’s check result. You can’t, however, exceed your normal movement limit. (Note: The defender provokes attacks of opportunity if he is moved. So do you, if you move with him. The two of you do not provoke attacks of opportunity from each other, however.)

 

[Corsair]

The general rules is for moving. What is done with a move action.
Moving
Moving out of a threatened square usually provokes an attack of opportunity from the threatening opponent. There are two common methods of avoiding such an attack—the 5-foot step and the withdraw action.

Note that the piece of rules text you quoted says moving. It doesn't say move action at all. It is referring to movement, not what causes the movement, or whether it was voluntary, or whether it occurred through specific actions.

It just says "moving."

Let that sink in for a bit.



Much like you can attack without taking the "Attack" standard action, you can move without taking a move action.

 

[Vegepygmy]

Bull rush specifies that AoOs are provoked because, generally speaking, involuntary movement doesn't provoke AoOs.

Oh, good! Just point us to that general rule, please.

As for frankthedm's contention that "moving" requires a move action, Corsair is correct: you can move (and provoke an AoO for doing so) without using a move action. By Charging, for example.

In fact, footnote 1 to Table 8-2 (PHB, page 141) flatly contradicts frankthedm: "Regardless of the action, if you move out of a threatened square, you usually provoke an attack of opportunity."

That is the general rule, my friends.

 

[Jeff Wilder]

"Moving" and "being moved" are not the same thing. As a general rule, moving provokes AoOs. Being moved involuntarily, generally speaking, does not. (And when it does, it is specified. It's specified because it is the exception.)

Falling does not provokes AoOs. Awesome Blow does not provoke AoOs. Choosing one side or the other of a wall of fire does not provoke AoOs. Being flung as a victim of the Snatch feat does not provoke AoOs.

Being bull rushed provokes AoOs. Why? Because bull rush specifies that it does.

AoOs are, within the game, justified as representing the PC dropping his guard, as a consequence of voluntarily doing something that requires it. Drinking a potion provokes an AoO. Feeding a potion to an unconscious character provokes an AoO ... for the person doing the feeding voluntarily, not for the person who is involuntarily ingesting it.

Moving voluntarily provokes AoOs. Moving involuntarily does not ... unless the specific rule controlling that involuntary movement says so.

 

[akbearfoot]

I agree with Jeff.

Frank's got the right idea, just the wrong mechanical explanation.

Moving provokes AoOs, not BEING moved.

 

[irdeggman]

Where does it state that "moving" and being "moved" are different?

Much like "attack" and "attack action"?

Note that "being moved" would also qualify under "the performing a distracting act" side of generating an AoO, as would "falling".

 

[akbearfoot]

Do so many people really think that being moved when its not your turn counts as 'moving'? The implication also means that if you are bull rushed, or telekinesised, or awesome blowed, or make a save against a wall spell, or whatever else that you also are subsequently denied your 5-foot step when your initiative does finally come around....Makes all of those abilities WAY WAY stronger imo.

Seems to me you cannot 'perform' any action when its not your turn, other than immediate actions and certain free actions like talking. None of which provoke AoOs.

 

[frankthedm]

In fact, footnote 1 to Table 8-2 (PHB, page 141) flatly contradicts frankthedm: "Regardless of the action, if you move out of a threatened square, you usually provoke an attack of opportunity."

That is the general rule, my friends.

In regards to actions that you take. At least if those are the various Actions in combat charts you are referring to to.

 

[Ogrork the Mighty]

"Moving" and "being moved" are not the same thing. As a general rule, moving provokes AoOs. Being moved involuntarily, generally speaking, does not. (And when it does, it is specified. It's specified because it is the exception.)

I think Jeff's explanation is the best so far.

 

[irdeggman]

Do so many people really think that being moved when its not your turn counts as 'moving'? The implication also means that if you are bull rushed, or telekinesised, or awesome blowed, or make a save against a wall spell, or whatever else that you also are subsequently denied your 5-foot step when your initiative does finally come around....Makes all of those abilities WAY WAY stronger imo.

Seems to me you cannot 'perform' any action when its not your turn, other than immediate actions and certain free actions like talking. None of which provoke AoOs.

And you are correct you cannot perform an action when it is not your turn, unless it is an immedate action or some specific free actions (like speaking). But that is not the question here.

Take 5-Foot Step
You can move 5 feet in any round when you don’t perform any other
kind of movement. Taking this 5-foot step never provokes an attack
of opportunity. You can’t take more than one 5-foot step in a round,
and you can’t take a 5-foot step in the same round when you move
any distance.

The key is to perform "movement" which is not the same as moving - that is the crux of the issue.

You can not take a 5 ft step if you do any other type of "movement" not when you move out (or even are moved out).

An AoO is generated when you "move out" of a threatened square not when using the "move action" - which is what is the mechanic for "movement".


Yes it is semantics but it is a rules questions and semantics far too often has tremendous meaning when it comes to rules issues.