AoO to trip someone getting up from prone?

[Ender_rpm]

One could argue here that what you see in "real world" fighting is people readying an action to knock someone over as soon as they've stood up, which would (mechanically) lead to the result that people who are trying to stand up get knocked over, and then they get punched or kicked while they're down (the AoO).

You've confused me here. I see a readied action AND an AoO, but both with the same triggering action?

Also, when you look at real-world fighting - how often do you see someone fight off five or six opponents at once, and keep them all knocked down? That's what could happen if a tripmonkey with Combat Reflexes stands in the middle of a bunch of mooks if you rule that you can retrip on the standing up AoO.

Outside of Jackie Chan movies? Not very often But then again, I am not a super hero. Ok, not during the daytime anyway. And If I am a 6th level trip monkey, surrounded by 1st level goons, why shouldn't I be able to keep them all on thier asses if thats what I want to do? Of course, the wizard acompanying them, or the rest of the mooks with the crossbows may have some harsh words, but hell, it works on paper

 

[Ender_rpm]

Edited to add:

My Maug tripmonkey who is very specialised for tripping would LOVE your ruling. He'd keep all the opponents down, all the time.

And my sorceror with grease would love to meet him

 

[Elethiomel]

You've confused me here. I see a readied action AND an AoO, but both with the same triggering action?

No. The AoO is triggered by the character attempting to get up from prone. By RAW, AoOs resolve before the triggering action, so the character is still prone when the AoO goes off. You ready an action to the moment the character does anything (breathe, look around, move a finger, etc.) after having stood up from prone. This triggers after the character is no longer prone, and hence can trip.

And my sorceror with grease would love to meet him

He has 20 DEX, levels in Monk, and ranks in Balance. Good luck with that.

 

[blargney the second]

Getting into house rule territory, but we ended up taking the AoO off getting up from prone. It actually works out pretty nicely.
-blarg

 

[KarinsDad]

Ok, so say I'm a melee fighter. If I don't have RIDICULOUS stat boosts to STR, what am I doing? And even then I always have a bow handy somewhere The problem isn't the rule set. Its stupid players who over specialize and whine when they get whacked for it. IME, anyway

The problem is with specialized attack forms with limited and uncommon defenses.

Having a great Strength (or Dex) does little against the Trip Monkey who also has a great Strength and also has a +4 to trip due to Improved Trip. With the same Str, he will successful trip a (non-Dwarven) Fighter 66.5% (70% * typically 95% chance of successful touch attack) of the time (the Trip Monkey wins ties typically because of having a higher bonus). The bow is not going to do much good for the Fighter once he gets into Melee combat and unless he is psychic, he probably doesn't know which NPC enemies are Trip Monkeys and which are not.

There is not much a Fighter can really do about this.

Another problem is with people who call players stupid when they have not thought out the ramifications of the rules, but that's another issue. It's not the players who are stupid. It's the rules (in this case).

 

[mvincent]

No. The AoO is triggered by the character attempting to get up from prone. By RAW, AoOs resolve before the triggering action, so the character is still prone when the AoO goes off. You ready an action to the moment the character does anything (breathe, look around, move a finger, etc.) after having stood up from prone. This triggers after the character is no longer prone, and hence can trip.

Exactly correct. It's a good way to keep someone down, but prevents you from making full attacks.

Another trick I've seen is:
1) disarm them with your AoO as they a getting up.
2) When they try to pick up their weapon, they'll provoke another AoO.
3) Use this AoO (assuming you have combat reflexes) to trip them again.

 

[Festivus]

He has 20 DEX, levels in Monk, and ranks in Balance. Good luck with that.

If grease were cast beneath you, you would have to make a balance check to remain in the square and not fall, and even then move at half speed to exit. While balancing, you are considered falt flat footed and cannot make attacks of opportunity. It would shut down your AOO abilty but not your readied action to whack the thing standing up.

How about a sense motive on whomever is readying to whack someone who was about to stand up, perhaps they crawl away instead? I rather envision a ready to whack him if he stands as a guy standing menacingly over me with an arm drawn back.

 

[Ender_rpm]

I now see why this is such a hotly debated topic

 

[gnfnrf]

If grease were cast beneath you, you would have to make a balance check to remain in the square and not fall, and even then move at half speed to exit. While balancing, you are considered falt flat footed and cannot make attacks of opportunity. It would shut down your AOO abilty but not your readied action to whack the thing standing up.

That's what the 5 ranks in balance are for, to avoid the flatfooted state.

--
gnfnrf

 

[Sejs]

While balancing, you are considered falt flat footed and cannot make attacks of opportunity. It would shut down your AOO abilty but not your readied action to whack the thing standing up.

If you have 5 ranks in balance, you are not flat-footed while balancing.

Also, Combat Reflexes lets you make AoOs while flat-footed.