APG - Hero Points

[Hunter In Darkness]

I'm considering using the action point system from Eberron instead. It seems better thought out.

I am the other way, I am thinking of replacing Action points with hero points. For one I find you gain far, far to many action points and normly cap them at 7.

And I find 7 still to many. Over all I find hero points more well heroic and better done to be honest.

 

[Werebat]

We switched from the Eberron action points to the Conviction Points model rolled into the description of E6. CPs are better in my opinion, partly because Eberron's model essentially allowed players to virtually guarantee saving throws they wanted made, would be made (this was in conjunction with the now-banned-at-our-table Mass Conviction spell from Spell Compendium). The worst thing about CPs is that once the night starts drawing to a close, players start dropping their points on any old roll because "you can't take it with you".

(Edit -- I can't stress enough the above point about Eberron's APs plus Mass Conviction letting PCs laugh defiantly at saving throws. It got to the point where I only had enemy casters use offensive spells that didn't allow saves, because regardless of DC the saves WOULD be made. This really got bad around level 12 or so, when rods of extend spell would prolong Mass Conviction to 240 minutes a pop (then +3 bonus to all saves which stacked with almost every other standard save bonus in the game, for the entire party). That plus the APs, which players knew when to use, meant that players very very rarely failed saves for anything.)

 

[Stormtower]

The Eberron/UA Action Point system is FAR too generous with AP per level. Far, far too generous. I found there were two serious negative effects on my game from the Eberron AP system:

1. Saves against nasty status effects become meaningless, because PCs always spend an AP to avoid the efffect. This renders the monsters' flavor and special attacks moot, making combats all feel same-same because monsters capstone abilities never actually function against PCs.

2. This is the really big one -- Time per PC turn at the table during combat increases dramatically, because there is a constant meta-calculation occurring in the players' minds each time they roll d20.... "Did I roll high enough that an AP will make a difference in success/failure?" Ok, spend the AP. Now, roll the d6 or multi-d6... now take the highest and add it to the d20 roll... ok, did I succeed?

I backed away from the as-written AP system after I found my players abusing it, and went with a no-AP campaign. I was startled by how much faster combats ran (and I tend to run fast combats anyway, in any edition) when the AP were removed.

Were you to try the Hero Points from APG, stick with 3 per level and try the RAW first before houserules, is my suggestion. More than 3 Hero Points or AP-style points per level is just asking for metagaming, slow play, and hoarding/abuse.

 

[DogBackward]

Were you to try the Hero Points from APG, stick with 3 per level and try the RAW first before houserules, is my suggestion. More than 3 Hero Points or AP-style points per level is just asking for metagaming, slow play, and hoarding/abuse.

It's not 3 per level, it's one per level, with a maximum of 3 held at any one time.
(They don't "refresh" like AP, they're cumulative.)

 

[Kaiyanwang]

Call me crazy, but I prefer the anty-hero option bonus feat. This gives me more control on PC limits.

I explain: PCs in pathfinder are already VERY strong. I see no reason to make them have more chances. And, to be clear, this is not because I want to annoy them, but because I fear that they don't feel challenged.

 

[BryonD]

Call me crazy, but I prefer the anty-hero option bonus feat. This gives me more control on PC limits.

I explain: PCs in pathfinder are already VERY strong. I see no reason to make them have more chances. And, to be clear, this is not because I want to annoy them, but because I fear that they don't feel challenged.

Throw more at them. Seriously, even if you don't use APs. If you DO add APs, then throw a double helping of "more" at them.

 

[BryonD]

I like APs. But the +4/+8 instead of +1d6 sounds fun.
I also don't like needing one for Raise Dead (as per TB).
I'm torn on whether to roll back the number or not. I'm leaning more toward dragging out the levels a bit longer and leaving APs at 6.

Basically: yes to AP/HP, but I'm using my own mish-mash.

The best campaign I ever ran also featured the heroic archetypes which is reworked in TB. I think the original version is superior, but either is cool.

 

[IronWolf]

I explain: PCs in pathfinder are already VERY strong. I see no reason to make them have more chances. And, to be clear, this is not because I want to annoy them, but because I fear that they don't feel challenged.

I've been known to throw a little too much at the players and end up with them in over their head. The hero points are a tool for them to sort of bail themselves out when I have thrown a bit too much at them without me needing to involve as much DM fiat. At least that is my hope!

 

[Crothian]

I've been known to throw a little too much at the players and end up with them in over their head. The hero points are a tool for them to sort of bail themselves out when I have thrown a bit too much at them without me needing to involve as much DM fiat. At least that is my hope!

Ya, We haven't left Ironwolf DM for for 5 years because last time he had our 3rd or 4th level characters fight a Dragon lich, weakened some but it did kill 2 characters and only through awesome strategy by me did we not all die. Of course he did TPK the party a few weeks later.

Looking over the characters at least at early levels they really don't seem anymore powerful.

 

[neofax]

I am using Hero Points in my Legacy of Fire game, but not RAW. I have combined it with the SpesMagna "Rewarding Roleplaying" rules and cut down some of the bonuses and penalties and stripped the removal of conditions. I also will up the amount when the character moves from one attack per full round action to two and again at three to top out at 5 total HPs. I feel this allows the HPs to progress like the character. I also disallow more than one use per encounter ala 4E.