Appraise check

[nittanytbone]

I like the "you know it for free" skill check for most treasures. If there is an item I need to use as a plot device, then I may ask for some checks depending on the item, anything from history, to dungeoneering, to streetwise, to diplomacy may be appropriate, depending on the item.

I really don't feel like wasting my and my players' time on trying to figure out how much a 100gp diamond is worth, on the off chance they might misappraise it by 10-20 gp. When they find it, I tell them what it is. Gems to me are just another form of currency.

Agreed.

Plus, "Appraise" (or whatever skill you use as a substitute) now becomes a MANDATORY skill for the party. If they don't have it, and thus constantly get boned on treasure, they will quickly find themselves lagging behind the expected power curve. This causes encoutners to be too difficult and can have ramifications for the campaign as a whole.

Don't make them roll for it unless there's plot value, IMHO.

 

[webrunner]

I think that haggling/finding out the price of things is a useful skill, but not as primary cash flow. And it certainly should be a more interesting thing then gems.. unless you want to "parcel" their money a bit different and have one gem that's actually twice as expensive and another that's worthless at different times.. if they happen to make some rolls they'll know it, if they don't then they'll get surprise when they go to sell it.

Also you can put in some interesting things, like ancient coins worth more to collectors or something. Just tiny bonuses. But don't make it so your party will fall behind without a certain skill roll succeeding.

 

[Starfox]

Lack of an Appraise skill is only a problem if you use a dishonest dealer. Most 3E teams I ran with substituted a solid Diplomacy/Sense Motive.

That said, some players thrive on things like Appraise. It depends on what level of grittiness you want.

 

[avin]

My concern is not exactly dishonest buyers, I want some level of roleplaying here, where a guy who never saw a diamond doesn't know exactly how much it costs.

If the players don't want to know how much is worth until they go to a jewelry no roll will be made. If they are rushing to contabilize, roll here we go.

I'm not running dungeon crawls, so I care about little things that add some immersion to my game

Magic Items are pretty easy, the Mage will identify and have a rought estimate of how much gold an item is worth.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I think Appraisal can be covered by different skills:
- Dungeoneering might be for Gems and rare, unworked material.
- History for art objects (and worked material) and documents
- Arcana for magical items
- Religion for items of religious significance (maybe even some magic items - Holy Symbols, Weapons, Armor at least)
- Nature for pelts and other animal parts

- Streetwise basically can fit in for everything. You might allow a Streetwise skill regardless of type of item, but set the DC a little higher (+5?) then for the other skills. Though I am a little torn, Thievery might also cover this a little bit. But I think I prefer Streetwise.

What you'd set for DCs I have no idea, though. Maybe DC 15 for Heroic Tier items (anything with a level of 1-10 or prices that correspondent to that tier), 20 for Paragon and 25 for Epic. (Heroic Tier characters might not be sure how much an astral diamond is actually worth...)
And then you can add or subtract depending on rarity or obscurity. Or you just use the Easy, Medium, Hard DCs for characters of that level.

Further steps:
- How much off?
- Failure by less then 5 - the PCs just don't know a fair price and have to investigate. Maybe offer a price range. (Compare the actual price to the item list prices - either the "single-use" items like Potions or more powerful items, depending on what fits best. Determine the corrosponding level. Then roll 1d6 and subtract it from the level for the lower boundary and add 1d6 to the level for the upper boundary.

- Failure by 5 or more:
The PCs estimate a wrong price. Roll 1d6. On 1-3, they underestimate the price by 1d6 levels, on a 5-6 they overstimate the price by 1d6 levels. Now determine a price range as above, or just pick exactly the resulted price. (So the players cannot distinguish between a total success and a failure by less then 5 and a failure by 5 or more. They might be unwilling to sell an item that they think is worth way more - and ocassionarlly, they might find a buyer that will offer them more then they expec.

- Alternatively, you might want to merely use percentages based on the actual prices. (Maybe 1d6 + 10 % for upper and lower boundaries of the error.)

 

[Justin D. Jacobson]

I agree with others that Appraise checks aren't worth the effort. So the 1st-level fighter doesn't know how much the gem is worth, but can't we assume that when he goes to sell it the honest gem trader just tells him how much it is worth then?

On the broader question of inserting old 3e skills back into 4e, it is generally sufficient to just use an ability score check of the ability associated with the score in 3e. Thus, instead of worrying what skill to use for Appraise, make it an Intelligence check. This simple solution works for almost every case.

 

[Jhaelen]

My concern is not exactly dishonest buyers, I want some level of roleplaying here, where a guy who never saw a diamond doesn't know exactly how much it costs.

But the guy trying to sell the diamond doesn't have to know. He'll simply get exactly what it's worth

 

[Justin D. Jacobson]

On the broader question of inserting old 3e skills back into 4e, it is generally sufficient to just use an ability score check of the ability associated with the score in 3e. Thus, instead of worrying what skill to use for Appraise, make it an Intelligence check. This simple solution works for almost every case.

Addendum: You can always grant a +5 training bonus too if the character's backstory warrants it, e.g., the rogue who started out as a fence for stolen goods.

 

[Fkewl]

My take on this as DM :

Give the "you think it's worth maybe a 100gold" but have the merchants haggle to price. Since they are essentially buying low to sell high.

So my usual merchants give about 50% of price, it's the player's job to haggle to 65-80% depending on a skills check result.. (higher the better)

They won't get 100% since merchants won't make a profit on it.

They might wanna try out collectors, mages, clerics or any other professions that might need the object and get a better price

In my game, they are part of an adventuring guild which makes finding the right buyer easier but takes more time.

Anyway, it's my take on it.. and since you can do whatever you want, their is no correct answer. Take what you think makes the better game for your gamers. If selling seems like a chore and gives no fun, just have them sell it fast for the normal price. If they have fun doing the merchant/collector search, well more roleplay for you !

good luck