Appropriate Boss bad guy for my group?

[Kafkonia]

Without preparation, higher level dragon battles are going to be a slaughter. With preparation, that can change.

How about a half-dragon? Half-dragon dinosaur, half-dragon hydra or pyrohydra, half-dragon giant snake, half-dragon advanced worg, half-dragon naga, half-dragon griffin. Then, they can later battle its progenitor and master.

And if you want to throw PCs for a loop, remember that once you've added the half-dragon template to something with animal intelligence it will now qualify for the half-fiend template. Through judicious (mis)use of core templates you can have firebreathing, SLA-using dinosaurs with an intelligence on par with a half-orc.

 

[Random Axe]

A CR 15 encounter would be brutal to average level 8 characters. I've found that the CR system works very well to determine the appropriate "power level" of villians to throw against the PC's. This is usually good for +/- 2 levels at low and mid levels and up to +/- 4 levels at high levels. So if your average party level is about 8th level, you could throw bad guys at them of about CR 6 -10 with the CR 10's being the "bosses".

Except that the CR system balances itself on the premise that a party is made of four characters. We "turn it up to 11". So what kind of CR is balanced against 11 8th-level characters?

 

[phindar]

I'd use this for a quick and dirty comparison.

 

[William drake]

I am currently DMing for our Forgotten Realms campaign. We are 11 PC's (made of a cleric dwarf, a fighter dwarf, two sorceror-thieves, a bard, a wizard, a barbarian, a paladin, a fighter-thief, and two rangers), averaging 6th to 8th level (with a couple at 10th-level) (at present; it's likely we will all be leveling up at least 1 level at the conclusion of this current adventure).

I had been considering running a dragon lair adventure for the group, but after studying up on the Red Dragon stats, I am seriously doubting whether our party can survive.

So, do you feel that an Adult Red Dragon would represent a lethal TPK, a puff piece, or a decent challenge for this party? Considering that the dragon is protected from scrying and therefore the party would have no real idea their final encounter will be the dragon, so can't very easily prepare fully for a dragon hunt. I'm looking at its AC, its total HP, and its DR factors -- is anyone going to get to hit this thing?

NO..NO..NO...the dragon would smoke them. SOmething else, why not alot of things that have been attacking a town, like a hivemind crature..or a nest of w/e in the mountains. I know alot of DM's want to use Dragons, but you got to know that dragons are some of the roughest creatures out there, so when you use them, make sure the party can handle it..and dont make it so that you have to smudge it so that they survive.

 

[Fishbone]

11 8th level PCs is considered the equivalent of 4 11th level PCs. I'd say you can take an encounter all the way up to CR 12, but that is pushing it. Any adult dragon will most likely tear the group a new one, DO NOT DO IT. The results would be similar to throwing a CR 16 encounter at 4 11s. It would be downright impossible for 3 or more character to live through an Adult Red Dragon attack.

 

[Jhaelen]

I've made it a rule to never use anything with a CR of 5+ higher than the lowest level pc. Otherwise the critter will simply tear through the 'weakest links' in the party's defense. I.e. the lowest level members will die all the time.
With a party of this size you really need to up the numbers. Include several minions with low enough CR so the low-level members will have something significant to contribute in the fight.

 

[Random Axe]

I'd use this for a quick and dirty comparison.

Holy KR/\P, this is an awesome utility. I'm saving THIS one in my bookmarks.

 

[Amitiel]

Honestly, don't go for a single high level big bad. Build an opposing NPC party. With the spread you've got there a party of evil NPC's or humanoids say 6 with ECL 8 on each. I would go for a mix that covers the skills of the party and put them in charge of a group of 2-4 lvl mercs or equivilent humanoids as minions. With appropriate tactics this will force your characters to not only pull out the stops but to plan the encounters. Patrols of the minions will keep the characters from charging straight in (in theory), as a 4th lvl commander and a 6-8 2-3 lvl troops as scouts (or even literal scout class) could survive long enough to get a message off and bring the whole lot down on them.

Tactics is the key though, make sure you work out how this group works together before you use them. An organised group is always more dangerous than even a powerful individual.

 

[Nightfall]

My advice, use a four man group with a cleric that had control over a large/huge mass of undead and/or a mob of some kind. Mobs of CR 1 kobolds works just fine.

Maybe a cleric of Talona with some levels in Blight Lord followed up with Blight spawn. Her companions can vary depending on their talents, but this way you can tailor up an encounter that won't kill them.

Don't use a dragon unless you absolutely have to.