Appz. Yo.

[the Jester]

Which will net the game companies more money?

Books, or Apps?

Apps are ephemeral. Already I foresee tons of people losing the ability to play 4e when DDI for 4e finally goes down.

Just one reason why apps will never net my money for D&D. If I want to go play some Basic, I'll always be able to... because I have the book. Likewise, every other edition I have played. Unlike many 4e consumers, I've bought (almost) all the books for the system; I can still play it when DDI 4e dies, but I'd bet the interest level is nowhere near what the level of interest is in 3e, 1e, etc. because of the paucity of gamers equipped to play it without electronic support.

Any electronic support for D&D must be optional and easily ignored or else it isn't the game for me. 4e trends too far to the electronic side of things as it is IMHO.

 

[Empath Negative]

Apps are ephemeral. Already I foresee tons of people losing the ability to play 4e when DDI for 4e finally goes down.

Just one reason why apps will never net my money for D&D. If I want to go play some Basic, I'll always be able to... because I have the book. Likewise, every other edition I have played. Unlike many 4e consumers, I've bought (almost) all the books for the system; I can still play it when DDI 4e dies, but I'd bet the interest level is nowhere near what the level of interest is in 3e, 1e, etc. because of the paucity of gamers equipped to play it without electronic support.

Any electronic support for D&D must be optional and easily ignored or else it isn't the game for me. 4e trends too far to the electronic side of things as it is IMHO.

*sigh*


Going back to Steam:

Doesn't net your money. Alright. I understand.

Now, how about everyone else? See, you know the real reason for steam? It's not to prevent pirating, really. Steam exists for one purpose: To prevent resale.

3.5s "The Complete Warrior" can be sold back and forth between gamers for years to come.

If I have to log into a system and "rent a license" then everyone ELSE who wants "The Complete Warrior 5.0" must ALSO "rent a license". I can't just go buy "The Complete Warrior 5.0" off ebay for six bucks. No, I have to buy it. From Wizards. At whatever price they set.

You won't be missed at all. Because the massive increase in income, year after year will negate you and all you might've brought.

And the argument they'll make? They're doing it for the PLAYERS benefit. It's for their convenience, their ease of use, and of course... to prevent piracy. =)

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

You won't be missed at all. Because the massive increase in income, year after year will negate you and all you might've brought.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but there are many assumptions within that prediction whose validity will only be proven by the passage of time.

 

[Janx]

The future of d&d will be apps. Playing via smartphone/tablet.

The dm will distribute loot, cash, and expeez via internet... Even at the gaming table.


The distant future of d&d involves programming ocular implants. This of course being a precursor to the holodeck.

I think your posturing as a L33T cyber-prophet kind of detracts from your presentation.

Probably 90% of us on this site are technologically sophisticated. Half of that number are likely employed directly in the tech industries.

That means we're all pretty smart, and half of us could implement this technology if we had the time.

It's not a new idea. it's not rocket science.

You're getting pushback because we also have the experience to know the barriers to success for these ideas.

it is not a big deal to run your character sheet on your laptop or tablet. And that choice has no bearing on group's paper or electronic preference.

Getting everybody onto the same online game platform has yet to be solved. There are a number of products out there that have yet to get wide adoption.

Some reasons include, complexity in setup and management. Lack of common platform adoption by individual players (I use an iPad, my friend a Mac, and my GM barely has internet access on a desktop PC in the back room of his house in the woods).

Further is the issue of edition fracturing of the market. Players don't NEED all that stuff, and tend to balk at being forced to adopt anything. With the current print editions, they are pretty much set. If WotC doesn't meet their needs, they reject it and that causes marketing issues for WotC's new edition.

Another barrier to this dream of networked D&D apps is that WotC has a piss poor track record at releasing any kind of complex game management software. Fan-based projects have rendered more success than WotC itself. DDI being the only success they've had, but really, what does it do besides manage your PC between games?

There's also the Legacy of D&D to consider. A valid point is that there are peopel playing the oldest edition of the game still. That's a 40 year run. A pure digital version of D&D will not have that longevity. If D&D were to go purely digital, 40 years from then, D&D will be dead. WoW will not still be played 40 years from now. There is something to be said for existing as a paper product.

That's not to say there won't be cool technological innovations to help play the game. Merely that there are some good reasons why the game can't go purely digital.

 

[Empath Negative]

I'm not saying you're wrong, but there are many assumptions within that prediction whose validity will only be proven by the passage of time.

Every market that has adopted this business method has become more profitable by it. Gaming, music, software... it's only a matter of time before Wizards wises up.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Every market that has adopted this business method has become more profitable by it. Gaming, music, software... it's only a matter of time before Wizards wises up.

1) We're still in the early stages of the information revolution, and we are just now beginning to see some of the downsides people experience with this model. For example, as people age, most electronic devices- generally designed for the under-40s- become increasingly difficult to use (for a variety of reasons). That simple fact could be crucial for what many consider a lifetime hobby.

2) Geopolitics & resource availability could radically increase the prices of electronic devices, minimizing or negating the advantages of going paperless. Every electronic device uses petrochemicals, precious metals and rare earths. Those are all limited resources, are difficult to obtain, expensive and, in many cases, are largely controlled by governments that don't care about the environment, human rights or may even be outright enemies of the West (militarily and ideologically).

3) Going paperless is NOT a guarantee of profitability. Sometimes it requires certain pre-existing economies of scales. There is currently a requirement that US doctors taking Medicare Part B introduce a certain kind of eRX/eMR system. The problem is, installing it costs tens of thousands of dollars, and its monthly maintainence fees are LESS than the income solo/small medical practices make from Medicare Part B.

 

[Empath Negative]

1) We're still in the early stages of the information revolution, and we are just now beginning to see some of the downsides people experience with this model. For example, as people age, most electronic devices- generally designed for the under-40s- become increasingly difficult to use (for a variety of reasons). That simple fact could be crucial for what many consider a lifetime hobby.

2) Geopolitics & resource availability could radically increase the prices of electronic devices, minimizing or negating the advantages of going paperless. Every electronic device uses petrochemicals, precious metals and rare earths. Those are all limited resources, are difficult to obtain, expensive and, in many cases, are largely controlled by governments that don't care about the environment, human rights or may even be outright enemies of the West (militarily and ideologically).

3) Going paperless is NOT a guarantee of profitability. Sometimes it requires certain pre-existing economies of scales. There is currently a requirement that US doctors taking Medicare Part B introduce a certain kind of eRX/eMR system. The problem is, installing it costs tens of thousands of dollars, and its monthly maintainence fees are LESS than the income solo/small medical practices make from Medicare Part B.

It's not simply "paperless", it's going "purchaseless". In other words you'll never own access to fifth edition, you'll only rent it.

And if you believe that the world will cease producing cel phones for relatively low cost within the next 20 years for any reason short of global war then I have news for you my friend. The cost of the phone is simply pushed into the cost of the subscription you pay to have access to it. This model likely won't be changing anytime soon.

 

[WhimsyTheFae]

I smell a prophecy.

I would like to provide a rebuttal, but your "answers" to The Jester, in addition to my preference for non-D&D systems tells me that I will not gain anything from such an attempt.

I will say that I like paper and dice. Software will not replace my preferred medium.

 

[Janx]

It's not simply "paperless", it's going "purchaseless". In other words you'll never own access to fifth edition, you'll only rent it.

And if you believe that the world will cease producing cel phones for relatively low cost within the next 20 years for any reason short of global war then I have news for you my friend. The cost of the phone is simply pushed into the cost of the subscription you pay to have access to it. This model likely won't be changing anytime soon.

Had you been paying attention in the Media Loung's tablet thread, you would know that Danny already knows this and has probably iterated this fact in countless forms in that thread.

You are not saying anything new under the sun.

What Danny is raising is a new situation that is arising that the resources that tech is made of are becoming increasingly scarce. If the iPhone moves from costing $800 to make (made up number) to $20,000 because of its usage of rare earth minerals, people can't afford to buy one direct OR afford their phone bill that spreads that cost across a 2 year contract.

I exagerated the numbers, but the point remains. There are other factors to consider.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

It's not simply "paperless", it's going "purchaseless". In other words you'll never own access to fifth edition, you'll only rent it.

And many do not like the rental business model and won't support it. How many? At this point, there are no hard numbers.

And if you believe that the world will cease producing cel phones for relatively low cost within the next 20 years for any reason short of global war then I have news for you my friend. The cost of the phone is simply pushed into the cost of the subscription you pay to have access to it. This model likely won't be changing anytime soon.

Didn't set a timetable.

Let's just look at lithium. The world's #1 producer of lithium is China. AIR, they account for 28% of known reserves. Things go south, politically speaking, and lithium skyrockets.

Suddenly the phone contract you like so much now spikes 15%...as does the price of everything you own that uses rechargeable batteries. What may be affordable individually may be too expensive in the aggregate.

And as bad as that could be, the ripples from a permanent spike in oil would be worse. An entry-level smartphone might cost as much as a top of the line tablet. Fold that into a rental contract and something in the typical budget will have to give.