Arbitrary thematic restrictions forcing mechanical limitations.

[Derulbaskul]

(snip) If it is the latter then why aren't there any gods in the FR pantheon with both the Skill and Strength domain?

Maybe because it didn't occur to the designers to do? I am sure it's not an active conspiracy to ensure that no FR deity doesn't have that particular combination but I am also sure that there are many other combinations that aren't represented yet.

It's easy enough to house-rule. Gond (assuming he is alive in your FR) or possibly Oghma would be suitable; perhaps a couple of the dwarven deities deserve a guernsey too.

One of the things I have liked about the post-1E incarnations of D&D that there are attempts made to match the themes to the mechanics. I don't always agree with the choices but, IMO, it's superior to the farcical situation (again IMO) that occurred in 1E's ToEE where all the clerics of different elements had the same spells.

 

[MrMyth]

One thing to note - there is a specific feat that allows Changelings to take domains outside of that of their deity. Clearly, a distinct mechanical value has been assigned to this benefit. And thus, the option is there if you really want it, and are willing to play a changeling. Or play a reflavored changeling. Or convince your DM to allow you to take the feat despite not being a changeling. Etc.

But in the end, this is no more valid than complaining that racial feats are limited by race, and class feats are limited by class. It is a method of ensuring that there is a large distribution of options, but that it is not an easy task to simple choose the best of all possible options without any restrictions at all. More than that, removing all of those 'arbitrary' restrictions would remove a lot of the flavor from each character, and things would quickly get boring if every class/race/deity/etc offered exactly the same options.

There is certainly room for a game that removes those barriers and lets you freely build your character without any limitations at all - there are games like that out there! But D&D isn't one of them, and I honestly don't think it should be.

 

[Kzach]

Maybe because it didn't occur to the designers to do?

Now we're getting somewhere.

Albeit slowly.

 

[Ariosto]

t's superior to the farcical situation (again IMO) that occurred in 1E's ToEE where all the clerics of different elements had the same spells.

The original D&D set had special provisions for evil "Anti-Clerics", a little nod in that direction. Like you, I also thought that spell lists should be tailored. They were somewhat in practice, to the extent that DMs (or even players) selected or vetoed spells with cultic appropriateness in mind.

Gygax published special features for the clerics of Greyhawk, although they initially did not include spell lists. Somewhere along the way, though, such lists were produced -- adjusted more specifically than with the 2e spheres.

 

[Turtlejay]

. . .So with my character as the example, technically Power of Skill is far better for him than Power of Strength. But there is no way I could ever bring myself to worship any of the current crop of FR gods that have Skill as a domain. It just doesn't suit the character.

On the flip side, I feel it's somewhat arbitrary that I can't choose what is an optimal choice for the character simply because the fluff to allow me to do so is absent from the setting.

See, this I can get behind. I know it is a small distinction, but it is imprtant. To come somewhere from a roleplay perspective, and try to build a character around it with the tools available is frustrating.

Case in point, I have always liked smart/dextrous fighters. When 4e came out, your options were kind of few and far between for such characters (though I will admit there were options). Now, with more books, feats, and the hyprid system, such a character is viable.

To come from an *idea* you like, and then try to build a good, functional character, especially in LFR where you will be playing with optimized or twinked characters a lot, is hard sometimes.

To top it off, the 'ask your DM' line doesn't work, as it has to be built to a certain standard to even qualify to play.

In that light, I see your frustration. FR's pantheon is well and truly boned, and could use a bit of work. I never was too fond of it to begin with, so I am not one to suggest anything there...

Jay

 

[DracoSuave]

So, you have a character who's view of his god make 'Skill and Strength' make sense.

So do that then, with DM's permission. Shouldn't be a problem.

'BUT THE BOOK DOESN'T SAY...'


No. Read the damn domain section. The beginning of it. Where it says you can do -exactly that-. Where if it makes sense to go outside the listed domain options, you certainly may do so.

For gossake, it's in the damn book.

This entire argument is bull.

In that light, I see your frustration. FR's pantheon is well and truly boned, and could use a bit of work. I never was too fond of it to begin with, so I am not one to suggest anything there...

Well, FR has a tendancy to Time of Troubles/Spellplague everything to the Nine Hells and back every time some new edition comes out, and has had such an extensive list of gods that it required not one, but -two- heavy crunch sourcebooks just to detail it all, and with so many gods mucking about that even at one Chosen per god, every damn inhabitant of the planet above second level would be a Chosen... of course not accounting for the fact that everyone and their sisters were a Chosen of Mystra to begin with...

...yeah... they -needed- to trim the fat. The gods of Forgotten Realms only seem to exist for the purpose of bringing about an Apocolypse every couple decades or so. Pointless, really.

 

[Derren]

So, you have a character who's view of his god make 'Skill and Strength' make sense.

So do that then, with DM's permission. Shouldn't be a problem.

Yeah. Can't anger the minmaxers by not allowing the optimal combinations they want, can't they?

 

[DracoSuave]

Yeah. Can't anger the minmaxers by not allowing the optimal combinations they want, can't they?

Not particularily relevant to the point.

Skill and Strength do make sense thematicly, some priests of Kord would embrace the skill of a precise strike combined with the might to overcome obstacles before them.

Could have been Fire and Winter, and -that- can also make sense to a weatherwitch who embraces the seasons ebb and flow.

As a DM I question 'cause it's powerful' but I don't see a reason to say 'No' to someone who has a legitimate explanation. The alternative is them looking for a Skill diety and trying to fit Strength in there.

In the end, you want them to play a character they are happy with, and Skill isn't so OMGPOWERFUL that it'll ruin games.

 

[chitzk0i]

Couldn't you just make do with one of the feats? Do you really need both?

 

[Celebrim]

Would you say that Dol Dorn is unique to Eberron or would you say that there are strikingly similar gods within the Forgotten Realms pantheon?

I would say that Dol Dorn is unique to Eberron. Moreover, I don't find any of the FR deities to be strikingly similar to Dol Dorn. Dol Dorn seems to unite aspects of Lathlander, Tempus, and Lliira into a single portfolio. Looking over the list I didn't see any FR diety that obviously united strength and skill into a single concept, although to be frank, I didn't particularly see Dol Dorn as doing so either.

In FR, dieties are required by an over diety to be exclusive in their portfolio. What diety controls may not be controlled by another diety. No FR diety has a portfolio that fits both strength and skill. Lathlander at a stretch, as patron of athletics could possibly be a skill deity, but that's a stretch and doesn't seem to be particularly a strength deity. Even if we accept one or the other, the problem is that Lathlander already has a broad portfolio as a sun, light, and healing diety. Tempus is a strength diety, but it would be stretching his portfolio significantly to make him a patron of skill generally as opposed to simply 'skill at arms'. Tempus is not a supporter of the arts, or of craftmanship, or of well anything normally associated with skillfulness except War. I've not looked over the 4e choices for deities and domains, but having none with both strength and skill seems reasonable to me.