D&D 5E (2014) Arcane Archer is underated due to grasping arrow

[Weiley31]

I always thought people's main issue with the 5E Arcane Archer was simply for the fact that it's main "gimmick" that it has runs out too quickly and then your stuck with an Archer that hits/takes hits like a fighter and has Action Surge.

 

[Stoutstien]

Spike Growth is once per turn too unless you can move an enemy more than once on during your turn. Further it is an AOE and the enemy needs to be moved inside the AOE, not just moved anywhere, you take damage if you go inside it to move an enemy. This makes a lot of movement options less viable. If the enemy is standing at the far edge of spike growth, for example you have to circle around behind him to push him into it with repelling blast.

Ensnaring strike requires a bonus action and more importantly gets a save. Further that save is with advantage on a large creature. There no save on grasping arrow, it is automatic. This is a BIG difference.

Both Spike Growth and Ensnaring Strike also require concentration.

Finally Grasping Arrow is not a spell, so aside from the fact you do not need to concentrate, I could hit the same enemy with a second Grasping Arrow on the very same turn and essentially double everything and require 2 saves to break free.

But it's 2 per SR until lv 15 and can only hit one arrow per turn max and if you use it again the first one disappears. You can't even use it on two different targets at once even if you take 2 turn to do it.

Then on top of that unless the 10ft movement penalty prevents them from reaching someone it's just 2d6 damage which most NPCs will willingly eat over spending can action to attempt to pull them off. It's a delayed smite that can add some extra damage and if your party has forced movement you could get some use out it. Enough to matter maybe but most likely not.

The reason why spike growth is better is it's damage is determined by distances so even something like thornwhip could add as much additional damage and the whole grasping shot does and if they have anything other type of feature they can double tap. Swarm rangers, telekinesis feat, and so on. Could even drop them off so a party member can drag them around the outside of it before showing them back in the middle which is difficult terrain so it could eat up more movement then grasping as well.

One place it shines is flying targets but just knocking them prone would probably add more damage and plenty of features do that and can be done more than once every 1-4 encounters.

It's just not enough to bring it up to snuff. It's not bad but it's not good and for the subclass with Archer in it's name it doesn't even make the top 3 for being and archer. Pushing for top 5 even.

 

[DND_Reborn]

You know, this thread got me thinking a sorcerer-style "arcane archer" would be cool. Instead of metamagics you'd get magical shots, which would cost "spell points" or whatever.

I do agree with many people the extremely limited uses of shots is the weak point in the subclass.

 

[Charlaquin]

I always thought people's main issue with the 5E Arcane Archer was simply for the fact that it's main "gimmick" that it has runs out too quickly and then your stuck with an Archer that hits/takes hits like a fighter and has Action Surge.

Two uses between short rests should work out to one use per encounter. Using one special arrow per fight sounds about right for the concept to me. I suppose if people aren’t getting enough short rests, changing it to 6 uses between long rests would give you the same number per adventuring day.

 

[ECMO3]

But it's 2 per SR until lv 15 and can only hit one arrow per turn max and if you use it again the first one disappears. You can't even use it on two different targets at once even if you take 2 turn to do it.

Yes. But that is the same number of spell slots a Warlock gets per SR. It is hald of the 1st level slots any caster gets per LR.

Also people are comparing it to spike growth, you get 2 arrows per SHORT rest at level 3. A Ranger can cast spike growth 2 times per LONG rest at 5th level.

Then on top of that unless the 10ft movement penalty prevents them from reaching someone it's just 2d6 damage which most NPCs will willingly eat over spending can action to attempt to pull them off. It's a delayed smite that can add some extra damage and if your party has forced movement you could get some use out it. Enough to matter maybe but most likely not.

No it is 2d6 per turn, not per round. So if you have a party of 6 and all have enemy movement options that is potentially 12d6 per round.

If you have a 5th level warlock with releppling blast for example can add 4d6 by moving it twice, on top of the EB damage. Thorn Whip, Lightning Lure, Crusher Feat swarmkeeper. All those do an extra 2d6 damage every time you hit it with one of them.

The reason why spike growth is better is it's damage is determined by distances so even something like thornwhip could add as much additional damage and the whole grasping shot does.

No. Thorn Whip will do 4d4 (10 points) extra when you cast it on an enemy and pulls him through 10' of growth. That assumes he is already in or standing on the edge and it assumes there is at least 10' of skpike growth between you and it. If there is 5 feet between him and the spiked area it is 2d4 (5) or if he is already in it and there is more than 5 but less then 10' it is again 2d4. Further you can do 4d4 a maximum of 2 turns in a row at which point he will be entirely through the spiked area unless someone else was moving him in another direction, this assumes he does not move at all himself.

Hit a enemy affected by grasping arrow with thorn whip and it does 2d6 (7). So it is three points less extra damage IF you can drag him through a full 10 feet of spikes. If you only can drag him through 9 feet of spikes it is actually less damage. You can continue to do this 2d6 hitting him with thorn whip every single turn, regardless of his positioning.

Moreover the enemy can misty step or teleport out of or around spike growth and once he moves out of it he can avoid it unless someone can put him back in it. Finally you can fly over it or dispell it. You can't do any of this with grasping arrow. If you get hit with it you are affected until you make your strength check or a minute passes. You can move by teleport with grasping arrow, but you are still under its effects after you teleport.

Finally it does not impede allies like spike growth does. You can damage enemies with spike growth, and they can damage you with it too.

 

[Stoutstien]

You can't trigger the grasping arrows movement damage more than once per turn so you can't get more than the 2d6 each one regardless of times they are moved.

 

[Unwise]

The best Arcane Archer is a Warlock. Just some minor reskinning to hammer home the theme. They use a bow as a focus and fire off eldritch blasts like the kid from the D&D cartoon. They can then twice per short rest fire an arrow that has a devastating effect. Hex works well as sharpshooting for extra damage. It does not require any feats, but you could get Spell Sniper if you wanted the long range.

My group feels that Warlocks fail as a caster class, because of their expectations. Playing them as an archer with the occasional devastating magic arrow makes the lack of spell slots feel far more OK. In fact we were in our 6th session of a game before the party realized that the Arcane Archer in the group was in fact a Warlock. It came up over a discussion about why they were not taking the Sharpshooter feat.