Arcane fire : Whats the point?

[Elephant]

For an area of effect spell, this is right in line with the guidelines from the DMG for damage, as underwhelming as you may think it is.

Anyway, what esle would you take as an offensive spell for a 4th level spell slot?

Orb of [element] and the Archmage Energy mastery ability. Now the energy resistances of monsters don't matter!

 

[Sejs]

To do 14d6 damage with arcane fire as a level 5 archmage, you would need to sacrifice a level 9 spell to do so though, i did not say you had to use a level 9 spell to power arcane fire.

I don't think a large part of the point is to do 14d6 with arcane fire by saccing a 9th level spell.

It's to do 5d6 with a cantrip, or 6d6 with a 1st lvl spell. At long range, with no SR.

Orb of force does 10d6 unblockable damage as a level 4 spell at level 10. Pretty damn good, and it just gets better when slapping on empower/maximise and that epic feat that lets you raise a spell's damage cap by 10 die for +4 spell levels.

Yes, a dedicated blasting spell is indeed likely to outpace the johnny-catch-all that is arcane fire. Not a supprise.

As for the epic feat, don't even bother. Yes, epic stuff can get crazy. Of course then you're using an 8th level slot to do 20d6, when there are 8th level spells (say, Polar Ray, etc) that can keep pace unaugmented.

I don't know, Question - your point seems to be that Orb of Force is a really good spell. Yes. We know Orb of Force is a really good spell. Apples and oranges. Orb of Force can only blast, but arcane fire lets you blast with anything.

Frankly were I an archmage that had both, I wouldn't even bother memorizing Orb of Force unless I knew I was going to be facing off against incorporeal enemies.

 

[Bront]

Well, two reasons. The first is (I've not actually checked the book, so I could be lying) they say that it doesn't apply.
The second is the more general one -- they're in the Conjuration school, and very very few (any?!) Conjuration spells allow spell resistance.

It's true, look it up!

The technical explanation is that when you are hit by the orb, it is the actual fire (or force, or acid, or cold, etc) and not the spell effect like a ray from an evocation spell.

The orb spells need to be knocked up 1 spell level (other than the 1st level ones, which are on par with MM)

 

[IanB]

To do 14d6 damage with arcane fire as a level 5 archmage, you would need to sacrifice a level 9 spell to do so though, i did not say you had to use a level 9 spell to power arcane fire.

Orb of force does 10d6 unblockable damage as a level 4 spell at level 10. Pretty damn good, and it just gets better when slapping on empower/maximise and that epic feat that lets you raise a spell's damage cap by 10 die for +4 spell levels.

You have to roll to hit (with either of them.) That is definitely not 'unblockable'. Orb of force can also be counterspelled, disrupted by an AOO or readied action, and stopped by other various corner case situations that affect spells. Arcane fire is a supernatural ability and is not subject to to disruption or counterspelling.

Our game has had a fair amount of experience with arcane fire over the last few years and it is definitely a strong ability, regardless of how it stacks up against some individual damage spells. The wizard is able to prepare all sorts of odd spells he wouldn't normally carry, without sacrificing (too much) offensive potential. This is a big deal. Sure, he could prepare a bunch of orbs of force at 4th level - or he could prepare dimension door, dimensional anchor, stoneskin, confusion, greater invis, or a host of other utilitarian 4th level spells, and still have some offensive action via arcane fire if he needs it. The ability is not a bad deal at all.

On the other hand, if you like sorcerers, it probably isn't very interesting, since they gain quite a bit less from it.

 

[Votan]

On the other hand, if you like sorcerers, it probably isn't very interesting, since they gain quite a bit less from it.

Unless they use it to replace needing to know offensive spells. They could use Dranonic or (even better) infernal heritage to generate offense at lower levels and switch to Arcane Fire at high levels. It'd be a bit awkward in the middle but certainly worthwhile at the end.

 

[DrNilesCrane]

Hmmm...I wonder does a "bolt of raw magical energy" do none, quarter, half, or full damage to materials? Is it affected by hardness?

I hadn't thought of taking this ability, but this thread has me thinking about it a bit more...

 

[Endur]

Arcane Fire also means you don't have to worry about being bound, gagged, and left without your spellbook.

Arcane Fire can be used even when you can't cast spells because you are bound and gagged. You could use the arcane fire to burn away your restraints. Then go to town on your enemies. Spellbooks -- who needs them when you have arcane fire?