Arcane Trickster (full 20 progression)

Sadrik

First Post
Here is a class that I use in my game can anybody find any problems with it. Is it balanced? The skills are a little bit off because I changed some of the skills, but imagine them with the exact skills that a arcane trickster PrC gets. I call this a "fix it PrC" that is fully developed.

Edit: I yie yie yie, the spellcasting progression looks awful! It is basically like a bard but gets 7th level spells.

Edit2: spaces for clarity

Edit3: Trapfinding

Edit4: added the "code" thingy on to the chart

Sadrik

ARCANE TRICKSTER (ARCANIST)

Alignment: Any.

Hit Die: d6.

Class Skills
The arcane trickster’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Agility (Dex), Appraise (Int), Athletics (Str), Awareness (Wis), Bluff (Cha), Concentration (Con), Craft Alchemy (Int), Craft Locks & Traps (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disguise (Cha), Gather Information (Cha), Knowledge (all skills taken individually) (Int), Pilot (all skills taken individually) (Dex), Sense Motive (Wis), Search (Int), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Sneak (Dex), Speak Language, Spellcraft (Int), Tumble (Dex), and Use Device (Dex).
Skill Points at 1st Level: (4 + Int modifier) x4.
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4 + Int modifier.

Table: The Arcane Trickster
BAB poor
Fort poor
Ref good
Will good
Code:
	Special 	0	1st	2nd	3rd	4th	5th	6th	7th
1st	Bonus feat, Trapfinding	2	0	—	—	—	—	—	—
2nd	Sneak attack +1d6	3	1	—	—	—	—	—	—
3rd	Trap sense +1	3	2	—	—	—	—	—	—
4th	Evasion	3	2	0	—	—	—	—	—
5th	Sneak attack +2d6	3	3	1	—	—	—	—	—
6th	Bonus feat, Trap sense +2	3	3	2	—	—	—	—	—
7th	Uncanny Dodge	3	3	2	0	—	—	—	—
8th	Sneak attack +3d6	3	3	3	1	—	—	—	—
9th	Trap sense +3	3	3	3	2	—	—	—	—
10th	Improved Uncanny Dodge	3	3	3	2	0	—	—	—
11th	Sneak attack +4d6	3	3	3	3	1	—	—	—
12th	Bonus feat, Trap sense +4	3	3	3	3	2	—	—	—
13th	Improved Evasion	3	3	3	3	2	0	—	—
14th	Sneak attack +5d6	4	3	3	3	3	1	—	—
15th	Trap sense +5	4	4	3	3	3	2	—	—
16th			4	4	4	3	3	2	0	—
17th	Sneak attack +6d6	4	4	4	4	3	3	1	—
18th	Bonus feat, Trap sense +6	4	4	4	4	4	3	2	—
19th			4	4	4	4	4	4	2	0
20th	Sneak attack +7d6	4	4	4	4	4	4	3	1
Class Features
All of the following are class features of the arcane trickster.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Arcane tricksters are proficient with all simple weapons, plus the hand crossbow, rapier, sap, shortbow, and short sword. They are not proficient with any type of armor or shield. Armor of any type interferes with an arcane trickster’s gestures, which can cause his spells with somatic components to fail.

Spells: An arcane trickster casts arcane spells which are drawn from the sorcerer/wizard spell list. An arcane trickster must choose and prepare her spells ahead of time (see below).
To learn, prepare, or cast a spell, the arcane trickster must have an Intelligence score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against an arcane trickster’s spell is 10 + the spell level + the arcane trickster’s Intelligence modifier.
Like other spellcasters, an arcane trickster can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. Her base daily spell allotment is given on Table: The Arcane Trickster. In addition, she receives bonus spells per day if she has a high Intelligence score.
Unlike a bard or sorcerer, an arcane trickster may know any number of spells. She must choose and prepare her spells ahead of time by getting a good night’s sleep and spending 1 hour studying her spellbook. While studying, the arcane trickster decides which spells to prepare.

Bonus Languages: An arcane trickster may substitute Draconic for one of the bonus languages available to the character because of her race.

Bonus Feats: At 1st, 6th, 12th and 18th level, an arcane trickster gains a bonus feat. At each such opportunity, she can choose a metamagic feat, Improved Familiar or Spell Mastery. The arcane trickster must still meet all prerequisites for a bonus feat, including caster level minimums.
These bonus feats are in addition to the feats that a character of any class gets from advancing levels. The arcane trickster is not limited to the categories of metamagic feats, Improved Familiar or Spell Mastery when choosing these feats.
An arcane trickster can forgo gaining one of their bonus feats to obtain a familiar in exactly the same manner as a sorcerer can. See the sorcerer description and the information on Familiars for details.

Sneak Attack: If an arcane trickster can catch an opponent when he is unable to defend himself effectively from her attack, she can strike a vital spot for extra damage.
The arcane trickster’s attack deals extra damage any time her target would be denied a Dexterity bonus to AC (whether the target actually has a Dexterity bonus or not), or when the rogue flanks her target. This extra damage is 1d6 at 2nd level, and it increases by 1d6 every three arcane trickster levels thereafter. Should the arcane trickster score a critical hit with a sneak attack, this extra damage is not multiplied.
Ranged attacks can count as sneak attacks only if the target is within 30 feet.
With a sap (blackjack) or an unarmed strike, an arcane trickster can make a sneak attack that deals nonlethal damage instead of lethal damage. She cannot use a weapon that deals lethal damage to deal nonlethal damage in a sneak attack, not even with the usual –4 penalty.
An arcane trickster can sneak attack only living creatures with discernible anatomies—undead, constructs, oozes, plants, and incorporeal creatures lack vital areas to attack. Any creature that is immune to critical hits is not vulnerable to sneak attacks. The arcane trickster must be able to see the target well enough to pick out a vital spot and must be able to reach such a spot. An arcane trickster cannot sneak attack while striking a creature with concealment or striking the limbs of a creature whose vitals are beyond reach.

Trap Sense (Ex): At 3rd level, an arcane trickster gains an intuitive sense that alerts her to danger from traps, giving her a +1 bonus on Reflex saves made to avoid traps and a +1 dodge bonus to AC against attacks made by traps. These bonuses rise to +2 when the arcane trickster reaches 6th level, to +3 when she reaches 9th level, to +4 when she reaches 12th level, to +5 at 15th, and to +6 at 18th level.
Trap sense bonuses gained from multiple classes stack.

Evasion (Ex): At 4th level and higher, an arcane trickster can avoid even magical and unusual attacks with great agility. If she makes a successful Reflex saving throw against an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful save, she instead takes no damage. Evasion can be used only if the arcane trickster is wearing light armor or no armor. A helpless arcane trickster does not gain the benefit of evasion.

Uncanny Dodge (Ex): Starting at 7th level, an arcane trickster can react to danger before her senses would normally allow her to do so. She retains her Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) even if she is caught flat-footed or struck by an invisible attacker. However, she still loses her Dexterity bonus to AC if immobilized.
If an arcane trickster already has uncanny dodge from a different class she automatically gains improved uncanny dodge (see below) instead.

Improved Uncanny Dodge (Ex): An arcane trickster of 10th level or higher can no longer be flanked.
This defense denies another rogue or other class with the ability to sneak attack the character by flanking her, unless the attacker has at least four more character levels that grant sneak attack than the target does.
If a character already has uncanny dodge (see above) from a second class, the character automatically gains improved uncanny dodge instead, and the levels from the classes that grant uncanny dodge stack to determine the minimum rogue level required to flank the character.

Improved Evasion (Ex): At 13th level, an arcane trickster’s evasion ability improves. She still takes no damage on a successful Reflex saving throw against attacks, but henceforth she takes only half damage on a failed save. A helpless arcane trickster does not gain the benefit of improved evasion.

Spellbooks: An arcane trickster must study her spellbook each day to prepare her spells. She cannot prepare any spell not recorded in her spellbook, except for read magic, which all arcane tricksters can prepare from memory.
An arcane trickster begins play with a spellbook containing eight 0-level sorcerer/wizard spells plus two 1st-level spells of your choice. For each point of Intelligence bonus the arcane trickster has, the spellbook holds one additional 0-level or 1st-level spell of your choice. At each new arcane trickster level, she gains one new spells of any spell level or levels that she can cast (based on her new arcane trickster level) for her spellbook. At any time, an arcane trickster can also add spells found in other spellbooks to her own.
 
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I usually go with existing spell progressions when making a new class, more out of expediency, laziness, and simplicity. I'd suggest going with reflex as the only favored save, as I tend to give prestige classes the benefit of the doubt on favored saves, but not core classes.

Now if we oversimplify things, we have a character with poor BAB, bardic spell progression, and some thief abilities. If you give them access to the full arcane spell list, it strikes me as a bit overpowered (or over-versitile), but not horribly so. If a player wanted to play one of these in my campaign, I'd tone down the sneak attack and limit the spell list; but even exactly as written I would not expect it to prove very different than other classes in actual play. One thing to watch out for, sneak attack damage on spells seems to be something no two DMs handle exactly the same. Differing interpretations of that could have quite an effect on how powerful this class is.
 

So do you think that the saves are too good for this class? And the ability to have the full arcane spell list is too strong? Hmm, I think it is ok. Essentially again the design idea was to basically make a 14/14 rogue/wizard and squeze there abilities into one class that didnt suck and was too under powered. so like a 14th level rogue they have 7d6 sneak attack and like 14th level wizard they have 7th level spells.

It is a heck of a lot better than a 10/10 split that would actually be a pretty bad character at 20th level, grossly underpowered.

These full progression classes also fix the wierd spell progression that if you were to actually use the PrC that those PrC's create at low levels.

Note that an eldritch knight Prc character can be an 18th level caster at 20th level
(9 wizard, 1 fighter and 10 eldritch knight PrC) So, looking at it from that stand point the casting is just right imo.
 

Actualy, I think the poor BAB is too weak. I'd give it the medium BAB. The saves are fine.

I could see giving them 2 extra skill points, but I'm not 100% sure how that balances out. The problem is that they are skill monkeys with not enough skill points at 4 per, but that's a drawback of the class, so could be balanced.

I would move the bonus feats to 5, 10, 15, and 20, and open them up to any feats. The rogue gets some cool bonus abilities at high levels, the Wizard gets metamagic feats. This lets them strike a balance of either way they want to take the character.

Drop the aquire familiar. I don't see that as something that this class needs. And I think it balances out better.

I like it overall. I think it's fairly well balanced (Minus the tweeks I suggested). You're using the Bard spell progression chart, right? I like how they still have to memorize spells, which I think makes the class balanced with the changes I outlined earlier.

Also, if you want things to line up, use a code block.

Hope this helps.
 

code block?

Do tell where I find that...

BTW I think it would be way too strong with an average BAB. I also think that would be too many feats at every five. Giving them 6 skill points per level might be a bit much too like you said, it being a balancing factor. I dont want the class to step too hard on the toes of the wizard or the rogue, but again giving the option for a more well rounded character than trying to build a rogue/wizard and applying a clumsy PrC.

Sadrik
 

Code:
	Special 			0	1st	2nd	3rd	4th	5th	6th	7th
1st	Bonus feat			2	0	—	—	—	—	—	—
2nd	Sneak attack +1d6		3	1	—	—	—	—	—	—
3rd	Trap sense +1			3	2	—	—	—	—	—	—
4th	Evasion				3	2	0	—	—	—	—	—
5th	Sneak attack +2d6		3	3	1	—	—	—	—	—
6th	Bonus feat, Trap sense +2	3	3	2	—	—	—	—	—
7th	Uncanny Dodge			3	3	2	0	—	—	—	—
8th	Sneak attack +3d6		3	3	3	1	—	—	—	—
9th	Trap sense +3			3	3	3	2	—	—	—	—
10th	Improved Uncanny Dodge		3	3	3	2	0	—	—	—
11th	Sneak attack +4d6		3	3	3	3	1	—	—	—
12th	Bonus feat, Trap sense +4	3	3	3	3	2	—	—	—
13th	Improved Evasion		3	3	3	3	2	0	—	—
14th	Sneak attack +5d6		4	3	3	3	3	1	—	—
15th	Trap sense +5			4	4	3	3	3	2	—	—
16th					4	4	4	3	3	2	0	—
17th	Sneak attack +6d6		4	4	4	4	3	3	1	—
18th	Bonus feat, Trap sense +6	4	4	4	4	4	3	2	—
19th					4	4	4	4	4	4	2	0
20th	Sneak attack +7d6		4	4	4	4	4	4	3	1

Here. I did not edit anything beyond fixing the spacing.

Quote this to see how it was done.

Note, you can't use tabs here, so best option is to use notepad or some other text editor, and then when you're done, move it here.

The feats ever 5 levels is instead of 1st, 6th, 12th, and 18th. So 5th, 10th, 15th, and 20th
 

These fellows seem a bit too good - and all abilities are per a rogue. Also, the bonus feats are too much... below is an alternate progression
1 trap find
2 sneak
3 trap +1
4 evasion
5 uncanny dodge
6 sneak
7 trap +2
8 Gain access to another school of magic
9 meta magic
10 trap +3
11 sneak
12 Improved uncanny dodge
13 trap +4
14 meta magic
15 special ability
16 trap +5
17 Gain access to another school of magic
18 sneak
19 meta magic
20 special ability

Call his spell progression equal to a bards, and I'd suggest making him a spontanious caster, rather then a wizard - the high charisma fits a rogue better then high intelligence. Limit them to 2 schools of magic initially, and add another at 8th and 17th. This drop in power should make them more playable.

B:]B
 

Beholder Bob said:
These fellows seem a bit too good - and all abilities are per a rogue. Also, the bonus feats are too much... below is an alternate progression
1 trap find
2 sneak
3 trap +1
4 evasion
5 uncanny dodge
6 sneak
7 trap +2
8 Gain access to another school of magic
9 meta magic
10 trap +3
11 sneak
12 Improved uncanny dodge
13 trap +4
14 meta magic
15 special ability
16 trap +5
17 Gain access to another school of magic
18 sneak
19 meta magic
20 special ability

Call his spell progression equal to a bards, and I'd suggest making him a spontanious caster, rather then a wizard - the high charisma fits a rogue better then high intelligence. Limit them to 2 schools of magic initially, and add another at 8th and 17th. This drop in power should make them more playable.

B:]B

hmm, I think it is strong; as it should be, its not overly crazy. I forgot they should have trapfinding. In my game everyone does so it was redundant to put it on there. Important bit of information though for the class I will likely do an edit to the first post. I am more partial to mine than to your ability progression. I can see the bonus feats disappearing all together, they really are not all that great they give them access to some meta-magic feats, spell mastery and to grab a familiar if they want one.

Sadrik
 

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