See, this is one of the reasons why discussing things with you becomes frustrating, you don't seem to actually absorb what people are saying. There's no 'high horse' for me to get down from. As I said in my previous post, having 1000's of posts here doesn't indicate anything about whether or not people are right or wrong. LOGICALLY it does perhaps bear on whether or not we have a better sense of what has and hasn't been discussed in the past on this forum, and that is ALL I said.
And then when it comes to whether or not FS was actually OP before you are of course welcome to your opinion, it is no better or worse than any other. We've all explained our reasoning and it is up to people to decide what makes sense to them. This is simply normal discussion and debate.
You are correct, Wizards doesn't GENERALLY improve elements that are less powerful. They've stated numerous times why that is. Essentially it boils down to it is easier to nerf a few OP things than to amp up EVERYTHING else to the same level. That would be a huge task, they would probably get numerous things wrong, and it would just be a big mess. You can go around playing your game worrying about what WotC MIGHT do in the future or just play and enjoy the game. Nobody makes anyone use any specific errata in their games anyway.
Nobody is suggesting that WotC should make changes based on 'popularity'. You commented that YOU didn't think people were complaining about FS being overpowered. Some people disagreed with this. It happens to be a factual observation that can be verified. It was verified. You didn't seem to like the fact that evidence indicated you were incorrect. Then I stated that you might consider the testimony of people who have read the vast majority of all the threads on this forum for the past three years as more weighty than that of people who started reading it 3 months ago on that topic. You have then conflated that comment into something totally different.
Again, it works better when you carefully examine what people are saying. Perhaps my previous post was somehow not clear. It SEEMED perfectly clear to me. If it wasn't then I hope I have clarified it for you. Still, it works better to make sure you're really clear about what people are saying.
I have watched your posts and you get frustrated when someone doesn't agree with you. You have put yourself on a high horse.
"Not to attack you ForeverSlayer, but think about this. Most of us have been posting here at least since 4e started. Most of us have extensive play experience and also extensive discussion of these topics under our belts. I'm not saying people with 1000's of posts are any more likely to be right or wrong about things, but it is pretty safe to say they're more knowledgeable about what has and hasn't been discussed before than people who have been around for a couple months."
You contradict yourself here. You moment you say that most of us have been posting here since 4e started like that is some badge that allows you to be right over others that haven't posted here as much, then you say your not saying people with 1000's of posts are any more likely to be right or wrong about things, which you have said actually. Then you say it's pretty safe to say they're more knowledgeable about what has and hasn't been discussed before than people who have been around for a couple of month's.
You see you can't even admit that is what you said. Now i you meant something different than what you actually wrote, fair enough, but I don't think so. I think you meant what you wrote but now you are trying to turn it around into something else without doing a good job of it.
Here is a little analogy I want you to sit down and think about. A man that uses a machine gun, doesn't always have more kills under his belt than a man with a sniper rifle just because the machine gun can fire more bullets.
I've been playing 4th edition the same amount of time as you have and we play test the game extensively. Because you and a few others have posted here a lot doesn't suddenly give you a better view and more knowledge of the game. Enworld isn't the only forum that exists.
Now on to the topic. Let's look at the Wizard daily's for level one just from the PHB. We have Acid Arrow, Flaming Sphere, Freezing Cloud, and Sleep. Now each of these spells brings something different to the table.
Level 1 Daily Spells
Acid Arrow Wizard Attack 1
A shimmering arrow of green, glowing liquid streaks to your target
and bursts in a spray of sizzling acid.
Daily ✦ Acid, Arcane, Implement
Standard Action Ranged 20
Primary Target: One creature
Attack: Intelligence vs. Reflex
Hit: 2d8 + Intelligence modifier acid damage, and ongoing
5 acid damage (save ends). Make a secondary attack.
Secondary Target: Each creature adjacent to the primary
target
Secondary Attack: Intelligence vs. Reflex
Hit: 1d8 + Intelligence modifier acid damage, and ongoing
5 acid damage (save ends).
Miss: Half damage, and ongoing 2 acid damage to primary
target (save ends), and no secondary attack.
First off it's an acid spell, it is 2d8 + Intell and ongoing 5 acid damage. Now it has a secondary attack right off the bat and does 1d8 + Intell + 5 ongoing. Has good range and it is an all around good spell you just can't sustain it or move it around.
Flaming Sphere Wizard Attack 1
You conjure a rolling ball of fire and control where it goes.
Daily ✦ Arcane, Conjuration, Fire, Implement
Standard Action Ranged 10
Target: One creature adjacent to the flaming sphere
Attack: Intelligence vs. Reflex
Hit: 2d6 + Intelligence modifier fire damage.
Effect: You conjure a Medium flaming sphere in an
unoccupied square within range, and the sphere attacks an
adjacent creature. Any creature that starts its turn next to
the flaming sphere takes 1d4 + Intelligence modifier fire
damage. As a move action, you can move the sphere up to
6 squares.
Sustain Minor: You can sustain this power until the end of
the encounter. As a standard action, you can make another
attack with the sphere.
Now here is Flaming Sphere which is a Fire spell. Now when the spell is first activated the spell only affects one creature period. Now you can move it around with your move action if you didn't use it and move it somewhere else if you want but it won't effect anything else until the start of the creature's turn that's next to it. Now if you want to lower the spell a bit then just remove the part about making another attack with the sphere. In all honesty, it isn't really worth it to burn up a standard action to attack with it again on a single creature. It's actually best to just use your move action to roll it wherever you want and save your standard to use other spells.
Freezing Cloud Wizard Attack 1
A pellet shoots from your hand and explodes into a cloud of icy
mist at the point of impact.
Daily ✦ Arcane, Cold, Implement
Standard Action Area burst 2 within 10 squares
Target: Each creature in burst
Attack: Intelligence vs. Fortitude
Hit: 1d8 + Intelligence modifier cold damage.
Miss: Half damage.
Effect: The cloud lasts until the end of your next turn. Any
creature that enters the cloud or starts its turn there is
subject to another attack. You can dismiss the cloud as a
minor action.
Freezing Cloud is a Cold spell. It effects all creatures in a burst and the effects last until the end of the caster's next turn. I like this spell but I would have added a sustain minor effect. This is one of those spells where other PC's with movement effects can toss the creatures in. I used to use Phantom Bolt with this, or Thunderwave.
Sleep Wizard Attack 1
You exert your will against your foes, seeking to overwhelm them
with a tide of magical weariness.
Daily ✦ Arcane, Implement, Sleep
Standard Action Area burst 2 within 20 squares
Target: Each creature in burst
Attack: Intelligence vs. Will
Hit: The target is slowed (save ends). If the target fails its
first saving throw against this power, the target becomes
unconscious (save ends).
Miss: The target is slowed (save ends).
Now Sleep is totally a spell on it's own. If you can get the creature to fail it's save then you are in good shape. Being slowed sucks when you have PC's throwing you into zones. Then if that next save goes then we have a monster that is unconscious.
Each of the spells have a little something different to bring to the table, but none really have to be changed in order to be useful. Some people find spells to be cool and some find spells to be useful from just a numbers point of view. Now the reasons that were given for the change to FS was because they wanted to make it more of a control spell, but that actually failed in my LTHPO (Long time honest professional opinion). We have run scenarios with the changes to the end of turn and it eliminates several tactics that are very very very controlling. All for the sake of trying to make creatures move who 9 times out of 10 move anyway unless they have a fighter in their face which then the fighter becomes the reason and not Flaming Sphere's end of turn damage. There are other factors that come into play such as your rank in the initiative order and the monster's rank in the order and I don't think the people who made these changes really playtested them beyond one game.
