Archers: no attack of opportunity when you full attack?

[Hypersmurf]

Funny.

I'm having a similar debate elsewhere, and my interlocutor is convinced that ranged attacks via full attack don't provoke, since the Action in Combat table speaks specifically of ranged attacks made via standard action.

What does he say to unarmed strikes made as part of a Full Attack, Charge, or AoO? And what's his response to the p137 quote?

-Hyp.

 

[Egres]

What does he say to unarmed strikes made as part of a Full Attack, Charge, or AoO? And what's his response to the p137 quote?

-Hyp.

He says that the unarmed strike description is under the "Standard acion" header, and thus doesn't apply to full attack action, and that he's only talking about full attack actions, and thus he is not interested in charge, AoO and such.

Regarding page 137, he says that that line doesn't state anything about full attacks, and the table talks about ranged attacks made via standard action and nothing else.

 

[Hypersmurf]

He says that the unarmed strike description is under the "Standard acion" header, and thus doesn't apply to full attack action, and that he's only talking about full attack actions, and thus he is not interested in charge, AoO and such.

So what happens if I make a ranged attack without the Precise Shot feat against an opponent engaged in melee as part of a full attack action? Do I take a -4 penalty, or does that not apply since it is found under Standard Actions, not under the Full Attack action?

Regarding page 137, he says that that line doesn't state anything about full attacks, and the table talks about ranged attacks made via standard action and nothing else.

If I roll a natural 1 or a natural 20 on an attack roll as part of a full attack action, is it an automatic miss or hit, or does that just apply to standard actions? It's found in the description of the attack action, but not the full attack action.

It's also found on p134, but the paragraph doesn't state anything about full attacks; do we assume, then, that p134 is referencing the rule found under standard actions, and is inapplicable to the full attack action?

Also, given the description of Deciding between an Attack or a Full Attack found under the Full Attack action, I can make the first ranged attack of my full attack action, and subsequently elect to take a move action instead of making my remaining attacks. If I do so, I presume that since my initial ranged attack was made as part of a Full Attack action (before I chose to take a move action instead of making my remaining attacks), no AoO was provoked?

What about if I use the Manyshot feat, which uses neither the Attack action nor the Full Attack action? Is an AoO provoked? Is a Natural 20 an automatic hit? Is there a -4 penalty for shooting into melee?

-Hyp.

 

[Vahktang]

Also, given the description of Deciding between an Attack or a Full Attack found under the Full Attack action, I can make the first ranged attack of my full attack action, and subsequently elect to take a move action instead of making my remaining attacks. If I do so, I presume that since my initial ranged attack was made as part of a Full Attack action (before I chose to take a move action instead of making my remaining attacks), no AoO was provoked?

A very good point.
It has to be every shot is an AoO

But I still think it weird that I can make a double move around a person, circling them twice, and they only get one attack of opportunity on me.
Ah well.
It's D & D. Don't worry about it.

 

[Egres]

Also, given the description of Deciding between an Attack or a Full Attack found under the Full Attack action, I can make the first ranged attack of my full attack action, and subsequently elect to take a move action instead of making my remaining attacks. If I do so, I presume that since my initial ranged attack was made as part of a Full Attack action (before I chose to take a move action instead of making my remaining attacks), no AoO was provoked?

You are replying just like I had done myself.

Here is his reply:

There's one logistical problem using the RAW in this particular instance. An attacker isn't required to decide whether they're making a full attack until after their first attack, which at that time is ambiguously either a standard action attack or the first attack of a full attack. So it's not clear whether the first ranged attack would provoke an AoO until the action type is finalized. However, there's a similar logistical problem with TWF: the penalties need to be applied to the first swing even though that could also be just a single standard action attack. The resolution, in both cases, is to decide on the action type beforehand.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Here is his reply:

I personally disagree on his TWF answer, since I think the penalties apply any time you are wielding a second weapon in your off hand, whether or not you take a full attack action, but the same argument could apply to Rapid Shot.

What was his response to Precise Shot and Automatic Hit/Miss?

-Hyp.

 

[MarkB]

I personally disagree on his TWF answer, since I think the penalties apply any time you are wielding a second weapon in your off hand

Define "wielding". If you're not attacking with the second weapon, are you wielding it or just holding it?

 

[Hypersmurf]

Define "wielding". If you're not attacking with the second weapon, are you wielding it or just holding it?

If you want to threaten or retain the option of attacking with it, you must be wielding it. If you want to benefit from abilities that apply to 'the wielder', you must be wielding it. If you don't need to wield it, I'm fine with you just holding it and not suffering TWF penalties.

But since, under that reading of 'fight this way', TWF penalties are dependent on whether or not you are wielding two weapons, not on whether you are making a full attack, it's not necessary to determine prior to making your first attack whether you will certainly be continuing with a full attack action, or wish to retain the option of taking a move action in place of your remaining attacks. It's only necessary to decide if you are wielding or holding the second weapon in your off-hand. Thus, if you elect to wield the second weapon, the penalty will apply on your first attack whether it turns out that that attack was part of an attack action or full attack action, and so the existence of the penalty does not determine that for you.

Which is why I disagree that TWF is analogous to the anonymous foil's proposition that a ranged attack made as part of a full attack provokes no AoO.

-Hyp.