Archers: viable archetype?

[Jdvn1]

Or are the non-spellcasters in D&D/d20 still dominated by the melee fighters?

Well, typically, if your party has one fighter, you want him to be a melee fighter. You want someone up front to take the hits. So, in that regard, d20 non-casters are dominated by melee fighters. Archers can be really useful,though.

 

[Kaffis]

My experience has been that against big tough stuff, archery has a bit tougher time scaling damage output. It's got fewer tools available to it to overcome high DR, etc. However, in situations against groups of enemies, it cranks out damage with the best of them, and with the advent of some of the feats in the Complete X series, you can get some excellent utility out of it, too, with things like ranged disarm.

My recommendation? Look around for magical dice to tack onto that d8, to help overcome some of the damage limitations.

 

[JoeGKushner]

Archery is indeed one of the most potent tools that a fighter can have at his disposal. I've seen many a group get whaled on because no one had any archery skill.

Depending on your 3rd party material, you might want to check out something like Soverign Stone, which actually has an Archer as a core class, or En World's own, Three Arrows for the King, a PDF/POD that has many options to it.

 

[Rackhir]

My experience has been that against big tough stuff, archery has a bit tougher time scaling damage output. It's got fewer tools available to it to overcome high DR, etc. However, in situations against groups of enemies, it cranks out damage with the best of them, and with the advent of some of the feats in the Complete X series, you can get some excellent utility out of it, too, with things like ranged disarm.

My recommendation? Look around for magical dice to tack onto that d8, to help overcome some of the damage limitations.

Actually Archers have an easier time if properly prepared under 3.5 to overcome DR, since its a lot easier to have Silver/ColdIron/Adamatite/etc... arrows than it is to have melee weapons with all of those characteristics. Also DR reductions are generally lower under 3.5 as well.

I've not actually tried using the ranged Sunder/disarm/etc.. feats, but since an arrow is iirc a tiny weapon its at some severe disadvantages for actually performing the feats. Only if you've got feats to burn would I recomend trying them and with all the Imp XXXXX feats they are unlikely to be worth it.

 

[F5]

Actually Archers have an easier time if properly prepared under 3.5 to overcome DR, since its a lot easier to have Silver/ColdIron/Adamatite/etc... arrows than it is to have melee weapons with all of those characteristics. Also DR reductions are generally lower under 3.5 as well.

You know, I never thought about it this way before, but an archer is uniquely suited to overcoming the new DR system. The complaint I've heard most about the new DR is the "golf bag syndrome"; that characters would have to carry around a weapon of each type of metal to overcome any type of DR they came across. If you replace the concept of the "golf bag" with a "quiver of trick arrows", it works a lot better. It even fits the super-archer archetype (think Hawkeye or Green Arrow).

I've got a ranger archery specialist in a pbp game I'm in now; the intent is for his Animal Companion to be a horse, and to get mounted archery ASAP. I'm only at 2nd level, so we'll have to see how it goes...

 

[Kelleris]

One thing nobody else has pointed out yet is that the archer will often be the very last person to go down.

Why? D8/d10 HD, decent armor, decent saves (with high Dex boosting Reflex saves), and you're supposed to be standing next to the wizard. I had a flying archer (fighter/cleric) in a game a while back, and she regularly came out of battles no more than 10-15% down on hit points. Even the wizard had typically taken more damage.

 

[Rackhir]

One thing nobody else has pointed out yet is that the archer will often be the very last person to go down.

Why? D8/d10 HD, decent armor, decent saves (with high Dex boosting Reflex saves), and you're supposed to be standing next to the wizard. I had a flying archer (fighter/cleric) in a game a while back, and she regularly came out of battles no more than 10-15% down on hit points. Even the wizard had typically taken more damage.

My second Rackhir character was infamous for this (it was under 1e), the DM had a knack for throwing battles at us that would literally push the entire party to the brink of destruction. With I think one exception, he was either the last man standing or the last man standing with the mage or monk. Of course it didn't hurt that he had the best HP, Str and dex in the party.

 

[Kelleris]

And it doesn't hurt that the archer archetype frequently features high Spot/Listen and (almost as often) Hide/Move Silently.

If I were going into a game with the express purpose of not dying, I think I'd play an archery-path Ranger.

 

[Driddle]

Change it up and play the same character with a sling instead of a bow. I think (book not on hand) that one of the feats might mention a bow specifically, but otherwise a ranged weapon is a ranged weapon. Load up the sling pocket with a fistfull of stones instead of multiple arrows on the bow string!

 

[Saeviomagy]

The biggest weakness I noticed with them was fighting monsters that were either immune to piercing weapons or had a lot of DR.

It's got fewer tools available to it to overcome high DR, etc.

Are you guys kidding, or just totally unaware of the rules? Buy small quantities of every type of arrow you think you will need (materials that is). Stack enchantments on your bow (+1, then holy, then whatever). DR basically ceases to be an issue for you. Take your shots one at a time. If the first shot fails to damage, use something different on the second. If that second one fails... etc. An archer who fires his first arrow, and is told "that didn't do much", and then fires the exact same arrow with his second shot deserves a serious spanking by the rest of the party.

Well, typically, if your party has one fighter, you want him to be a melee fighter. You want someone up front to take the hits. So, in that regard, d20 non-casters are dominated by melee fighters. Archers can be really useful,though.

I would go farther than that.

If your group has fighters (ie - not the class, just people with good ac and hitpoints) and none of them are willing to get into melee, I'd seriously suggest letting them die. The typical group does not NEED a ranged damage dealer anywhere near as much as it needs someone to stand in the front ranks and take the hits. And since most parties are limited to however many players you have - you have to get rid of those dead-weight characters.

This doesn't mean that the fighter can't be good at archery - just that sometimes he has to be willing to pick up his tower shield and take some hits.