Archlich - the Vecna killer

No, nothing like that. He's just a cleric of Kelemvor. You know, "Destroy undead, and oppose the use of necromancy" and all of that. My character never goes anywhere without a mask on, even around the party. That might hide the Michael Jackson nose for a little while :lol:

Oh that's -muuuuch- better. At least with the Raven Queen you can say 'This is my fate, and I will bear it' and that might get you a free pass.
 

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Even if the Archlich did get the 'Undead' keyword, I think DM adjudication would prevent this from happening. Vecna is the god of undeath; if he wants to exclude you from his aura, you better believe you're going to be excluded from his aura.

While I am aware of this forum's stance against calling out on houserules, it is statements like this (amongst others made later on) which really irritate me. It has always bugged me the wrong way ever since I joined this forum, and to this day, it still continues to do so unabated. You are going to have to forgive me here, it is like some fishbone stuck in my throat which I simply have to spit out.

So you have a character build which just happens to work particularly well against a particular foe. Whoopee-de-do. Simply because that foe so happens to be a god (and lord forbid that a party should have a reasonable chance of fighting a deity, even when level comparisons might indicate otherwise), and because it apparently offends the sensibilities of some that a character optimized to fight a certain enemy should fare quite well against it, they evidently see the need to start calling in all sorts of ad-hoc rules as to why this would not work. So he can now exclude PCs from his aura. Why don't you just say that his aura can now automatically punch right through necrotic resistance? Or banishes you to another realm with a flick of his finger without getting to roll for defenses or saves?

Misunderstandings of the rules, I fully support (such as Vecna voluntarily lowering his aura if he feels it may be benefiting the archlich more than it harms), or the fact that an archlich is not an undead.

But being punished simply for being good at what I do? (Such as that statement about you becoming the new Vecna, being relegated to the equivalent of an NPC and henceforth removed from the game). Absolute nonsense IMO. I believe that whether a party prevails or falls in a fight with a foe should really just depend on their stats and tactics. Otherwise, you may as well just eschew all stats and let combat be decided by who can do the best job of trash-talking everyone else.

In fact, if the PC in question was able to access some means of actually being healed by Vecna's aura, I see no reason whatsoever to deny him that. Vecna was given stats for a reason, to delineate the boundaries of his power and let the DM know how he is expected to fare against a party of a certain level. I don't see the need to accord Vecna any special DM-protection status simply because he is a god. If he does fall, it is just because the party is stronger than him. In that case, he deserves to go.

You say any reasonable DM would change this or that to screw around with the archlich? I say a reasonable DM should accord the archlich all the full benefits (if any) he is entitled to when facing Vecna. Or any other foe where his special abilities may come into play. And not suddenly spring this sort of stunt on the player in question. :hmm:

Ah...feel so much better now that it is off my chest...:P
 

1) You -can- lower an aura as a minor action. See Monster Manual, beginning of it.

2) The archlich does not have the undead keyword as written (so far). Compare with Warforged (which have the construct keyword).
 

But being punished simply for being good at what I do? (Such as that statement about you becoming the new Vecna, being relegated to the equivalent of an NPC and henceforth removed from the game).

To be clear, I meant this as a sort of "epic destiny immortality" thing, akin to a demigod ascending to the heavens or one of the other paths becoming a shadowy legend. I wouldn't do it if the player was opposed; I just thought that taking out a god and then replacing him would be a great "high note" with which to retire a character.
 


I have a feeling the Archlich is going to get a lot of errata clearing up a lot of these points as well as others.. there's certain aspects of it that just seem broken (as in, not working), assuming we're looking at the final version (namely the already-noticed-in-another-thread way in which the Phylactery and empower form abilities don't really work together and probably should have reversed triggers)

Incidentally the Warforged doesnt have the construct keyword any more.. i think it has the "living construct" keyword now
 

Indeed, webrunner. Archlich is gonna need some errata or house rules to make its abilities work more favorably. It doesn't say you gain the undead keyword, but it is heavily implied that you are undead, as Regi points out.

That aside, I wouldn't have a problem with Vecna's aura being foiled by the archlich. If you can't beat 'em, join 'em!
 

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