Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="Tovec" data-source="post: 6306181" data-attributes="member: 95493">I agree with [MENTION=78752]DMZ2112[/MENTION]. I think they should definitely keep that kind of thing out of the core books. Succubi are excellent creatures to put in a Monster Manual, they really are. WotC can also probably get away with making them "Any Evil" by whatever system they're using to define this. But it is a storm they don't want to walk into blindly as soon as the put Malcanthet and the word Devil or the word Demon anywhere near each other. And worse if they put neither title to her, I think. No one really cares about the minor other archfiends, they're not the big names that people are going to recognize and adhere to. If you saw.. Levistus as a Demon for some reason that would cause a lot of problems and more than a little bit of pain, but no where near as much as seeing Asmodeus to be the king of all Demon-kind.But this can be avoided to some extent. I've been advocating for such separation for months (years?) now. Have the default succubi, label it as a fiend. Don't specify how it fits in or what type of fiend it might be. Say it can be found working with either of the planar evil-juggernauts. Then release a manual of the planes, I'm assuming primarily focusing on the planescape formula, and provide further details. If they're really smart they'll include multiple arrangements. So, by all means include Malcanthet and the rest (in the MotP), but make it clear that she is a Demon for those who want it that way, a Devil for those who want her there, and a "neither" for those who don't really care or to match the "unaligned" evil that the succubi are presented as in 5e.In doing this you'll have (1) the same creatures you would have had anyway. (2) Will have tried to find a middle road between VERY different sides. (3) Given options to let DMs pick their own style to match their table. AND (4) made sure that future material pertaining to succubi need only be based on the Monster Manual WITHOUT mention to a fiendish-lord so that games can include at their leisure when they see that they fit. "Oh, this adventure has Devils/Demons? Cool, I'll make the evil advisor a Succubus."But I predict that WotC will include Malcanthet and other archfiends in their Monster Manual, which will automatically codify that certain creatures work a certain way and then by the default assumption any other appearances that contradict this become head-scratching. "Why is there a legion of succubi attacking with the other hordes of the [Abyss/Nine Hells], they're [devils/demons]? When did they switch sides and why?" Which then rules out people using them in the same way that I think that WotC was trying to achieve, kind of as mercenaries similar to Yugoloths who work with both sides. As soon as you say for certain where Malcanthet and others like her belong it'll be the default which makes it all the harder to change; which is why I think if they're going to do that they should work on a proper book and then fully flesh out other ideas so that people can see a broad array when making the decision. I just don't expect they will.</blockquote>

Verification