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Message: <blockquote data-quote="barsoomcore" data-source="post: 409596" data-attributes="member: 812">I did try to stay away, honest. I just can't help myself when I see incorrect statements being bandied about, however.Nobody's suggesting that D&D is a good source of history, either, so why are you making this argument? I mean, if you're trying to say that D&D doesn't have much in the way of actual facts to learn, then yeah, sure. The only FACTS one learns from D&D are game mechanics. But the thread (and indeed the thrust of mkletch's argument) is that playing D&D teaches us things. Not that the rulebooks contain a bunch of useful facts about the world.The act of playing (or the act of prepping, for us DMs) is where the learning takes place in D&D, not in flipping through the rulebooks. When I researched Aztec cultural practices for my Yshakan nation, I learned a great deal. Because of D&D. When I learn something BECAUSE of something else, I say that it taught me a lesson -- regardless of where the information actually resided. If you don't want to say that, fine, you don't have to, but then we're no longer having a discussion, we're just disagreeing on semantics.You are evidently using the term development very differently than I would. To me, human development is all about learning. Unless you're suggesting your puberty was brought on by video games. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /> But if Space Invaders was important to your development then it must have been important to your learning. Maybe it doesn't contain many facts about the real world but it did inspire you. I have teachers who inspired me. They didn't themselves contain much information, they just pointed me towards what I wanted to know. I say that they TAUGHT me things.Again, if you want to define "teach" as "delivers facts" then go right ahead. According to that definition D&D does not teach. I find that an unsuitable definition of "teach" and the definition I prefer includes inspiration.But we don't have to agree.Well, sure, but the point is that D&D provides SOME education, as you have just stated here. That it's some unique, special education unavailable elsewhere has never been discussed, but as you say, there is SOME education taking place. Or at least there can be.Is learning only about acquiring knowledge? Where does wisdom fit into your notion of learning? Would you call Socrates a teacher? And yet he possessed no knowledge himself -- he merely asked question after question until people were forced to face the truth. Clearly no knowledge has been imparted -- the knowledge already existed in the student's mind, but only through the exercise of Socrates' careful intelligence was it made apparent. Is this learning? Not as you seem to define it, and again, that's fine. Define your terms however you like.But it IS learning according to me, and shows me that I can learn things regardless of whether or not any knowledge is being imparted.And believe me, you might find no end of people travelling foreign countries who appear to be learning absolutely nothing.Again, the question isn't "Is the D&D the best or only way to learn something?" It's "Does playing D&D teach lessons?" Or even "Can playing D&D teach lessons?"To which you have already answered yes, and so I leave that discussion as it is.On to SemperJase:Here is an answer to your point. It is effective.Hah! You weren't expecting me to agree with you, were you? Caught you off guard with that one, didn't I?Of course it's effective. Role-playing is a very effective means of helping people overcome their fears, insecurities and anxieties. Here's how it works: situation A causes person B to feel fear. Therapist C concocts Role-play D in which person B confronts situation A in a controlled environment (E) where they know they're safe. Knowing that they are safe allows them to experiment. To try out techniques and strategies in an environment where they are not risking anything.In a word, to EXPLORE. Sometimes they will try out strategies that prove to be unworkable. Sometimes they will attempt techniques that turn out to put them into even worse situations. Role-playing is all about having a chance to try things out BEFORE having to risk the "real-world" challenge and face all the dangers it poses. They can even try out strategies they KNOW are a bad idea, just to see what will happen. All of these are very powerful and valuable techniques.Hence playing evil characters is quite possibly a wonderful opportunity for someone to learn hard truths about themselves. Better to learn these things within the relatively safe confines of a gaming table than out wandering the streets.So you see -- the very fact that, as you insist, role-playing is such an effective behavioural tool, demonstrates the basic indefensibility of your position that role-playing evil characters is always bad.</blockquote>

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