D&D 4E Are Long-Term Charm Effects Gone in 4E?

[Kel]

I've been scouring the books looking for any powers, rituals, or magic items that create long-term charm or control effects in 4E, like charm person or magic jar did in earlier editions. I can't find anything. Am I overlooking something?

Do we know if WotC is going to add long-term charm effects back in with Arcane Power? That just seems like such a D&D staple to me...

 

[Orcus Porkus]

I've been scouring the books looking for any powers, rituals, or magic items that create long-term charm or control effects in 4E, like charm person or magic jar did in earlier editions. I can't find anything. Am I overlooking something?

Do we know if WotC is going to add long-term charm effects back in with Arcane Power? That just seems like such a D&D staple to me...

There are no such powers anymore, and that's a good thing.
Please don't start an edition war.

 

[Falling Icicle]

A sucubus can charm people for long periods of time. She only has to kiss them once per day or some such to sustain the effect.

 

[PeelSeel2]

Long term charm is now mostly the domain of NPC on NPC. I guess if their was a good plot driven reason to have a character charmed, then you could just make the power up that is affecting them.

 

[jgsugden]

Long term charm fits in that same grove as insta-kills - one die roll puts you out of commission - and that isn't fun, whether you're the charmer or the charmee.

However, WotC has reintroduced some effects that were previously 'insta-kills' as non-insta kill effects. The same can be done with Charms.

Example:

Charm Person Wizard Attack 1

Daily * Arcane, Charm, Implement
Standard Action Range 5
Target: One Creature
Attack: Intelligence vs Will
Hit: Target may not make an attack that includes you as a target (save ends).
Special: If the target fails 2 saving throws against this power, the target believes that you are his closest ally, and will treat you as he would his closest ally (no save). This effect ends upon the completion of an extended rest by the target.

It takes at least three rounds (or at least 3 rolls of the dice) before the combatant is really 'charmed', which prevents the combat from being over instantly, and the overall chance of success is very low unless you can give them save penalties (if the initial attack had a 50% chance of hitting, the chance of a successful charm is only ~ 10%.

It still has a lot of the interpretation issues old charm spells did, and the language can certainly be cleaned up, but the core concept could be used to implement charm and domination type effects. Honestly, I think we'll see something in this vein when we see psionics introduced.

 

[Jack99]

Using a ritual to create long term charm is a better idea imo. The power above is not balanced, even by a long shot.

 

[Justin D. Jacobson]

The dominate condition subsumes the charm effect from 3e. See the dominate and enslave abilities of the aboleth for an official charm-like ability. As for something for the PCs, maze is a 25th level attack power for the wizard, and confusion is a 27th level attack power, and both of them are limited in duration. I think it's safe to say that WotC does not want permanent charm effects in the hands of the players.

Now, it would not suprise me if we saw the bard get some dominate-until-the-end-of-the-encounter powers at higher levels.

 

[CapnZapp]

Thinking old spells should be of the same level as before is bad for the game.

As others have said, long-duration charm effects do exist in the game (see Succubus) but they aren't made available to player characters, and certainly not at first level.

The Charm spell has always been stupid-powerful. The only way to rationalize it is if you run a kick-in-the-door combat heavy game, where the only use for it was to take out foes in combat. Out of combat, it is incredibly unbalanced and over-powered.

But 4E doesn't need to stick to old stupid design.

And remember, in 4E no longer do NPCs play by the same rules PCs need to play by. (This is good!).

If you want to add such an effect to your game, if it is a NPC (a classic witch in the woods perhaps), simply steal the mechanism from the Succubus.

If it is for the PCs, you need to ensure it can't be abused to short-circuit adventures or combat.

The latter part is easy, make it a ritual. Then it can't be used in combat.

This also neatly makes it difficult to use to trick someone.

Ideally, you should only be able to charm "defeated" creatures. In the sense that if you could kill it, then it won't be unbalanced to charm it.

Then it's probably wise to add an out for the DM. Too many spells/rituals/whatever have been designed without story in mind.

Just by adding something as simple as "the charmed creature gets a new save in situations of extreme duress at the DM's discretion" will allow the DM to break off the effect if the story demands it without having to resort to outright cheating.

And oh, one final thing: don't forget to add a level restriction to the ritual. You should probably not be able to charm a creature much higher level than yourself.

 

[Jack99]

Now, it would not suprise me if we saw the bard get some dominate-until-the-end-of-the-encounter powers at higher levels.

Even more likely, the Psion, based on what they have told.

 

[Kel]

Thanks for all the suggestions. I agree that long-term charm could be unbalanced in 4E combat (although a limitation that doesn't allow you or your allies to attack the charmed creature or ask it to do anything crazy (like in 3E) might work). The sample power provided by jgsugden is pretty good, although it probably belongs as a daily in the mid- to high-heroic tier IMO.

I was more concerned about out-of-combat plot issues. In 3E, for instance, I had a plot about a vampire-wizard infiltrating the court of a duke and charming him for a couple of years with his wizard spells, and later fully possessing him with magic jar for a time. I feel like I can't do that kind of thing anymore.

I know I can always just say "well, the NPC can do that with some power or spell that he has," but I'm the sort who likes to work w/in the existing rules. I feel like my players enjoy the story more that way...