D&D 4E Are powers samey?

[Garthanos]

We aren't trying to finagle 1st level PCs with only their basic attacks when talking about 4e.

No check recent that is exactly what was being compared.

 

[Teemu]

I think fighters are far more differentiated from wizards in play in 5E than in 4E. A barbarian plays different than a cleric.

Doesn't really matter if the fighter archetypes are similar, they are after all fighters. On the other hand I find that even two fighters in 5E can feel more different than two fighters in 4E did.

But it doesn't matter. Like most people I don't play 4E any more.

What about the wizard-sorcerer-bard example I laid out?

Do you think that the differences between the 4e characters of: a monk with their full discipline powers; a thief rogue with no daily attack powers and who has several at-will move action utilities (the class feature ones); and a deva wizard with tome of readiness class feature and the feats to expand spellbook—that these differences are not significant? Their decision points are samey and overly simplified?

 

[Garthanos]

Neither class has cantrips, so they have no at-wills.

They have at level 5
Grab and Strike, Twin Strike, Pressing Strike, Takedown Attack...

It's really just structured differently.

 

[Maxperson]

No check recent that is exactly what was being compared.

No. One person brought up 4 different similar powers. He doesn't get to alter the conversation for all the rest of us.

 

[Garthanos]

No. One person brought up 4 different similar powers.

He gets to be responded to as well no hogging it.
And they weren't really very similar even if your game is actually tactical at all.

Not entirely true there are other forms of tactics your game might have that arent represented

 

[Maxperson]

Yes, tons of people have impressions and beliefs about all kinds of things, impressions and beliefs that are not based on factual truth. The impression of 4e powers being samey is one these, as the impression is based on the uniform presentation of powers and the lack of knowledge of what 4e powers actually encompass.

Excuse me. You don't get to call our impressions and beliefs mistaken or lacking truth. We are simply looking at different factual portions of the classes than you are. Just like you might focus on speed for a car and I might focus on suspension. A bouncy, fast car will be crappy for me, but good for you. A slow, smooth ride will be heaven for me, but you won't like it.

Trying to dismiss people who simply have different opinions based on different criteria as not based on factual truth is very short sighted and flat out wrong. Try to have a more open mind about things.

 

[Maxperson]

He gets to be responded to as well no hogging it.
And they weren't really very similar even if your game is actually tactical at all.

Sure they were. Different perspectives and all. You don't see them as samey based on facts. We see them as samey based on other facts. And it's all just subjective opinion.

 

[Oofta]

What about the wizard-sorcerer-bard example I laid out?

Do you think that the differences between the 4e characters of: a monk with their full discipline powers; a thief rogue with no daily attack powers and who has several at-will move action utilities (the class feature ones); and a deva wizard with tome of readiness class feature and the feats to expand spellbook—that these differences are not significant? Their decision points are samey and overly simplified?

What about them? Out of all the the options they are similar but still distinct.

Some classes in 5E have similar structures compared to 4E where all classes shared a similar structure.

Anyway, I'm out. Have a good one.

 

[Garthanos]

And it's all just subjective opinion.

Well not all the final balance factor may well be.
The facts are something you can point to and we can point to they are not subjective ie they wouldn't be called facts.
But if you take a very narrow category and the more narrow it is the more similar things in that category will be is kind of a normal expected thing not some horrendous samey but a selected for samey.

4e has every hero able to dash and strike and they cannot in 5e heck not even a fighter can without a feat???

 

[Maxperson]

Well not all the final balance factor may well be.

Balance doesn't matter, though, to sameyness. That's a separate discussion.

The facts are something you can point to and we can point to they are not subjective ie they wouldn't be called facts.

You aren't understanding. 2w+minor effect is a fact. You can look at that fact for 7 different powers and the minor effects makes them feel different to you. We can look at that same facts and the 2w+minor effects makes it feel samey to us. We're both looking at facts, but the outcome on how it feels is 100% subjective.