Are prestige classes still viable?

[Jhaelen]

Having just finished reading the Pathfinder RPG core book, what I've been wondering about is if there is still sufficient incentive to take levels in a prestige class.

Imho, the base classes have received so many power-ups, I'd have a hard time justifying taking a level in a different (prestige) class.

Or is it just the prestige classes in the core book that aren't particularly attractive?
Or am I just overlooking something that makes them more attractive?

 

[Aus_Snow]

I think that - at last! - 'Prestige' Classes aren't going to primarily consist of significant powerups, but rather be comparable, meaning an actual choice might need to be made (but also that no choice need be made, if preferred.)

3e was simply overflowing with prestige classes that outshined every possible base class or base class combo out there. That PFRPG seems to want to balance the two, more or less, is a point very much in its favour, IMO.

 

[James Jacobs]

We very much tried to make prestige classes not into power-ups for base classes but "flavor choices" for base classes. I'm still not sure we accomplished this, and I'd love to hear more feedback... but the basic goal was that we were hoping that folks would pick up a prestige class for either roleplaying reasons (becasue they want to be an assassin or a loremaster) or because they wanted to do a complex multiclass (like arcane archer or eldritch knight). HOPEFULLY this'll also result in folks not doing the prestige class dip as much, because if you're taking a prestige class for roleplaying reasons or to support a multiclass, you'll WANT to stick it out to the prestige class's end.

Anyway... I'm looking forward to seeing how this shakes out!

 

[Remathilis]

One nice thing I noticed is that some of my "favorite" PrCs were invalidated. I was always a fan of the PrCs that granted small boons, but didn't take away from the core function of the class like Master Specialist, Dragonheart Mage, or Sacred Purifier. All of those prestige classes have been absorbed by the new base classes, so there is no need for them anymore. That means PrCs can be used for wild ideas, not plugging gaps.

 

[gamerprinter]

I agree

I agree.

For instance I have developed a Samurai base class for my Kaidan: a Japanese Ghost Story setting, I built it using the Pathfinder Ranger as a template, and have come up with (so far) six different combat styles, which should be enough variety for anyone looking for a specific samurai design.

Still I plan to create several Prestige classes that serve as expansions on certain samurai ideas - with emphasis on flavor.

The Iaijutsu Master will be one such prestige class. I've put in the Iaijutsu Strike as a precision damage mechanic in the samurai, but only up to 5d6 damage, so the prestige class allows that to expand up to 10d6 with a few feats and features useful for this specialist who strikes flat-footed targets.

I've also placed Ki pool in my samurai build for enhancements to his Intimidate skill, and some buffs for some of the combat style builds, as well as Ki Strike. However, I think creating a more monk-like samurai prestige class is in order that have more uses for samurai ki pool.

So for me, prestige classes add more flavor to a currently excellent samurai build. The PrC don't add significant crunch, rather only expanding existing crunch in the base class.

GP

 

[Haffrung Helleyes]

core class should be the most powerful

In my opinion, staying in your core class should be the most viable option for a powergamer. That way, people will take prestige classes for flavor reasons -- because they've joined an actual organization in the game, for example.

I really think that prestige classes introduced needless complexity to 3E, that could have been better served by feat chains. In a few cases (eldritch knight, etc) they served a good purpose by making multiclassing viable, but for the most part I think they just sold a lot of books.

The worst thing prestige classes did was to make it necessarily to plan your character's level advancement strategy from the very beginning, in order to meet prereqs. I think this really took away from the game.

Ken

 

[billd91]

The worst thing prestige classes did was to make it necessarily to plan your character's level advancement strategy from the very beginning, in order to meet prereqs. I think this really took away from the game.

I disagree that this was ever a problem with the system. It was only a problem given a particular style of play - one designed to eke every bit of advantage out of a character build. In other words, it was only as big a problem as your character development strategy made it a problem.

 

[DaveMage]

The worst thing prestige classes did was to make it necessarily to plan your character's level advancement strategy from the very beginning, in order to meet prereqs. I think this really took away from the game.

Agreed.

Maybe they would work better if there were simplified pre-requisites, such as you only need a certain character level to qualify rather than the skill/feat prgressions that most require.


As for prestige classes in Pathfinder, there are so many options with the base classes, that they (prestige classes) seem almost superfluous. Sorcerers and wizards are essentially "multiple classes in one" so that you could play something like 15 different characters that are sorcerers or wizards.

Prestige classes in Pathfinder almost seem like something better suited to NPCs than PCs.

Edit - of course, many prestige classes could be eliminated if their abilities were simply turned into feats.

 

[Voadam]

I disagree that this was ever a problem with the system. It was only a problem given a particular style of play - one designed to eke every bit of advantage out of a character build. In other words, it was only as big a problem as your character development strategy made it a problem.

"Hey these harper guys we met and helped out on their major quest are pretty cool, and they invited my wizard to join their magical secret society and learn their special techniques! Too bad I didn't take the educated feat at first level and can't take the prestige class."

 

[Jhaelen]

Thanks to everyone for the feedback!

HOPEFULLY this'll also result in folks not doing the prestige class dip as much, because if you're taking a prestige class for roleplaying reasons or to support a multiclass, you'll WANT to stick it out to the prestige class's end.

Thanks for providing some insight into this design decision. So, it's actually a way of turning prestige classes back into what they were originally intended to represent. I can certainly see the merit in this.

Personally, I've always been a fan of the prestige classes in the Eberron campaign setting because they actually seemed to be naturally evolved from the setting rather than a package of special abilities.

I take it then, that prestige classes from the Pathfinder setting might be similar? That's certainly cool