Are the alternate base classes becoming core?

[drothgery]

I'd say the big 'missing' core classes are
- a non-warrior divine caster (like the archivist from Heroes of Horror or the cloistered cleric from UA)
- a lightly-armored warrior type (swashbuckler, or the 'thug' fighter variant from UA)
- a warrior/arcande type (the duskblade and hexblade are spins on this)

And replacing the sorcerer with something more distinct from the wizard like the warlock or dragonfire adept makes a lot of sense. But then you've got 14 core classes, and that's a bit much; I'd banish the monk off to Oriental Adventures, probably move the paladin off to prestige class land, see if I can rework the fighter to cover the light-fighter role, and probably banish the druid off to a supplement as well.

 

[Crothian]

As for the duskblade, knight and Spirit Shaman I will not use them despite their filling missing archetypes as they have, imo, all been better done elsewhere.

Where and what clsses do you feel do these archtypes better?

 

[I'm A Banana]

There is definitely room for a spontaneous divine caster. Of the options we have, I think the favored soul lends itself best to the role. I would expect a lot of revision and reworking, but I do think it would be the base.

Methinks spontaneous casting is very nearly dead. I can't see what's good about it when you have the "infinite casting" of something like the Warlock. So rather than a favored soul in 4e core, I could see an "infinite casting" healer.

I still see the slot-based wizard in the core, probably the slot-based cleric and druid, but everyone else is open to become infinite casters of one sort or another, I'd wager.

 

[Nonlethal Force]

Methinks spontaneous casting is very nearly dead. I can't see what's good about it when you have the "infinite casting" of something like the Warlock. So rather than a favored soul in 4e core, I could see an "infinite casting" healer.

I think this is purely expiriential. In my experience, I hardly ever see slot based casters anymore. Most people playing with me like playing the favored soul and sorcerer much more than the cleric and wizard. Actually, i see far more psionics than arcane, for that matter.

My point is not to say that I'm right and anyone else is wrong. My point is that WotC is smart enough to realize that with spellcasting these two poles exist and I would be suprised not to see both spontaneous and prepared casting options for both arcane and divine magic.

EDIT: Whoops, I read wizard instead of warlock, KM. My fault! I think your point about warlocks over sorcerers is well grounded in experience, although I don't think warlocks will replace casters.

 

[Greg K]

Where and what clsses do you feel do these archtypes better?

AEG's Myrmidon, battle sorcerer (although like the sorcerer its needs an occasional bonus feat to make the class worth staying with rather than automatially jumping to PrC)

Hong's Knight (an OA Samurai variant), Legends of Excalibur, and one or two others I am forgetting at the moment

Green Ronin's Shaman's Handbook

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

The player characters in the new "anything goes" Ptolus game I just joined are: Transmuter, Investigator (from Atlas Games' Crime & Punishment), Cleric, Fighter, Rogue, Factotum (from Dungeonscape) and Illusionist.

I'd say the core is safe with the people I play with.

 

[Buttercup]

Moreover, players are begging to use these classes. No one wants to play a boring old wizard anymore, they have to be a warlock, a duskblade, or a beguiler.

Not in my experience. My players are fine with the base classes. I'm fine with the base classes. (Except monk, which doesn't fit in my campaign worlds, and sorcerer, which I have replaced with my own variant.)

Honestly, I think there are too many goofy variants. I think most of the novelty that players crave can be gotten with fluff rather than crunch.

 

[Ry]

The Warlock, IME, is fantastic from both a player and a GM side, and worth adding to the core rules (give the wizard more spells/day, and replace the sorc with the warlock). I think the knight, minus some of the honour, might be 4e's fighter, but I haven't had actual play experiences with it yet.

 

[Mark CMG]

It now seems that these classes are considered core.

Not even close, from what I've seen.

 

[Nifft]

IMHO the good ones should be considered core, and the rest should be quietly forgotten.

It's nice that WotC is experimenting with new archetypes, and it's even better that new products support the good ones.

- - -

Hopefully 4e will have a nice split between Archetype and Mechanic. So, you could be Skill Guy (which will determine many of your class abilities) and choose your Archetype (Stealthy, Swift or Charismatic), which will determine the rest of your class abilities.

Cheers, -- N