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Message: <blockquote data-quote="doctorbadwolf" data-source="post: 8001455" data-attributes="member: 6704184">When i say even for success I mean that there is a cost to complete the action, or at least the chance of a cost, regardless of the binary result of the check. You might have to spend a resource no matter what, or you might have to spend a resource unless you succeed by a certain margin, or unless X number of rolls in a group check succeed (where basic success on the task only requires X-2), etc. For instance, when my players were performing a very complex improvised ritual to stop a necromancer's contingency "if I die i'm taking everything within a dozen miles of my corpse with me and becoming a lich" spell from going off, killing them and everything within 13 (bc Eberron) miles of their location, they had some resources they had to spend (hit dice, as the ritual called for blood), some resources they could spend to boost success or chance of success (spend spell slots or magic item charges to do XYZ or give someone advantage on their next check), and resources they'd have to spend if they failed more than 1 check in the ritual (more HD, levels of exhaustion, or other limited resources based on what made sense in the moment). The Bard used their inspiration dice liberally, and cast a few different spells. The Paladin of Blood of Vol used a few extra HD to boost the ritual's power. The Monk burned through the rest of his ki, which he'd only used 2 of in the fight, helping everyone align their ki and get a resonating ohm going after the bard and an NPC knight made the "crystaline arcane latticework of the ritual architecture" resonate like crystal glasses being played, the wizard used several spell slots to dismantle or suppress the enchantments of the necromancers magic items that were boosting her contingency. That was a challenge, not because the stakes were high, although they were, but because it cost them resources, it was hard, and it was something they had to overcome. I'm not gonna agree on your definition of stakes, tbh. The paths choice has stakes. Something is lost either way. One path might turn out to be better either in terms of greater reward, less risk, or both. The players will never know exactly what the stakes were, but there are stakes. Also, the choice might have known stakes but no way to know how the choice will impact those stakes, such as not knowing which path is quicker, but knowing that you have to quickly get to the destination. Regardless, there are stakes, but no challenge.</blockquote>

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