Are tumble Checks too easy?
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James McMurray
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hong said:
Fine then, make the kid fifteen and a 4th level aristocrat. It doesn't matter what the target is, all that matters is the interpla between gaurds and the hitman. Hell, the target could be a ming vase, and the gaurd a 15th level devoted defender. Your pathetic attempts to detract from my specific examples in no way matter when looking at the general example they reference.
g'bye now. Have fun. I know I have.
James McMurray
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Darklone said:Hah, Epic Level talks here and my puny level7 DD is not worthy? First time since years that I use splatbook material and they tell me to stop *sob*
The devoted defender makes a great bodygaurd. Unfortunately, bodygaurding is not the only time when someone will want to tumble past a person or creature that is infinitely more skilled than they are. In these cases, tumble is, if not broken, then at least bent.
James McMurray said:
Guard
GUARD
... said general example, of course, being "Tumble is dummm!!!11"
Personally, I think it's wrong myself. Or perhaps it's WRONG, I forget. But it certainly isn't wrong, or Wrong. Because these would just be wrong, if not WRONG.
g'bye now. Have fun. I know I have.
Does this mean you're going to ignore me?
Last edited:
James McMurray said:
Well if they had a 3rd level Fly spell on them they could just fly over the infinitely more skilled defender out of his reach, to exactly the same effect. If they're trying to tumble through a 6' tall by 3' wide defender in a 6'x5' corridor, the DC ought to be well over 25, anyway...
You suffer Attacks of Opportunity when you leave yourself open to being attacked. AoOs are about you, not about the guy who AoOs you. That's why they're relatively easy to avoid - by tumbling, combat casting, spring attacking, 5' steps, et al.
Savage Wombat
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Boy, was that a fun thread or what?!
re
James and Pax,
You're pretty good at ignoring valid ways to counter your tumble scenarios. I love how you always paint the rogue as winning initiative, easily tumbling the distance given only half-move actions, and then not accounting for the fact that it is probably a suicide mission.
You should stick to your basic argument which is that a tumbler should have a more difficult time tumbling past higher level creatures. Using outlandish scenarios doesn't prove your point, it just shows how easy it is counter a skill you are saying is too easy to use.
An opposed tumble check is neither necessary nor more realistic. You and James just play in games where you have all the advantages and probably feel guilty about using your tumble at epic levels to make it even easier. I'm sorry to say, in the games I play in tumble is a skill used to survive, and rarely is offiensive tumbling a good way to do anything but isolate yourself from the party leading to near certain death in our campaigns.
James and Pax,
You're pretty good at ignoring valid ways to counter your tumble scenarios. I love how you always paint the rogue as winning initiative, easily tumbling the distance given only half-move actions, and then not accounting for the fact that it is probably a suicide mission.
You should stick to your basic argument which is that a tumbler should have a more difficult time tumbling past higher level creatures. Using outlandish scenarios doesn't prove your point, it just shows how easy it is counter a skill you are saying is too easy to use.
An opposed tumble check is neither necessary nor more realistic. You and James just play in games where you have all the advantages and probably feel guilty about using your tumble at epic levels to make it even easier. I'm sorry to say, in the games I play in tumble is a skill used to survive, and rarely is offiensive tumbling a good way to do anything but isolate yourself from the party leading to near certain death in our campaigns.
Hey, here's a novel idea for some of the people having trouble protecting princes from 5th level Rogues: Instead of assuming that the captain of the guard doesn't understand how the world works, and wasting time shouting about fighters and devoted defenders, make some of the bodyguards ROGUES, so they can actually spot potential assassins and win initiative. 
