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Are you moving from 5E to PF2?
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<blockquote data-quote="RSIxidor" data-source="post: 7789009" data-attributes="member: 6695558"><p>I'm not sure if any specifically could be argued at the same level of complexity as things like character creation usually don't have analogues in most board games and there's also the aspect of whether players should have knowledge of the contents of the Bestiary. </p><p></p><p>Just to grab a quick list, I took boardgamegeek's advanced search and filtered by weights of 4-5, with at least 300 weight ratings, and at least 300 user ratings, and released since 2010. <a href="https://boardgamegeek.com/geeksearch.php?action=search&advsearch=1&objecttype=boardgame&q=&include%5Bdesignerid%5D=&geekitemname=&geekitemname=&include%5Bpublisherid%5D=&range%5Byearpublished%5D%5Bmin%5D=2010&range%5Byearpublished%5D%5Bmax%5D=2020&range%5Bminage%5D%5Bmax%5D=&floatrange%5Bavgrating%5D%5Bmin%5D=&floatrange%5Bavgrating%5D%5Bmax%5D=&range%5Bnumvoters%5D%5Bmin%5D=300&floatrange%5Bavgweight%5D%5Bmin%5D=4&floatrange%5Bavgweight%5D%5Bmax%5D=5&range%5Bnumweights%5D%5Bmin%5D=300&colfiltertype=&searchuser=&range%5Bminplayers%5D%5Bmax%5D=&range%5Bmaxplayers%5D%5Bmin%5D=&playerrangetype=normal&range%5Bleastplaytime%5D%5Bmin%5D=&range%5Bplaytime%5D%5Bmax%5D=&B1=Submit" target="_blank">Results.</a> In addition to those, I personally think Root, Scythe, and Gloomhaven are decently complex as well. And there are games that are closer analogues to the RPG experience, like Gloomhaven, as well as other dungeon crawlers like Descent and Swords and Sorcery, though their complexity varies and their focus is usually much more narrow than what we get in an RPG. There's also the entire board game subgenre of wargames which individually might not be hugely popular but there are a lot of people playing them, and they are generally at least medium complexity (ranging from simpler to absolute nightmares like Campaign for North Africa, though that's certainly not contemporary). </p><p></p><p>That said, I don't know that I'd argue that any of those are as complex as PF2. Board games and card games as well tend to have narrow scopes to their rules. RPGs need to have rules for things that will never come up in play for some groups but will come up often for other groups, because of the nature of RPGs. PF2 does have a lot of rules like that, and some of those specific rules are quite complex, in addition to the rules that are at the core of many RPGS (combat) being complex to start with.</p><p></p><p>I don't think we can actually argue any board games are as complex as PF2. Maybe not even as complex as 5E.</p><p></p><p>I also feel like I spent way too much time on this comment just to basically say, "I don't think any are."</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="RSIxidor, post: 7789009, member: 6695558"] I'm not sure if any specifically could be argued at the same level of complexity as things like character creation usually don't have analogues in most board games and there's also the aspect of whether players should have knowledge of the contents of the Bestiary. Just to grab a quick list, I took boardgamegeek's advanced search and filtered by weights of 4-5, with at least 300 weight ratings, and at least 300 user ratings, and released since 2010. [URL='https://boardgamegeek.com/geeksearch.php?action=search&advsearch=1&objecttype=boardgame&q=&include%5Bdesignerid%5D=&geekitemname=&geekitemname=&include%5Bpublisherid%5D=&range%5Byearpublished%5D%5Bmin%5D=2010&range%5Byearpublished%5D%5Bmax%5D=2020&range%5Bminage%5D%5Bmax%5D=&floatrange%5Bavgrating%5D%5Bmin%5D=&floatrange%5Bavgrating%5D%5Bmax%5D=&range%5Bnumvoters%5D%5Bmin%5D=300&floatrange%5Bavgweight%5D%5Bmin%5D=4&floatrange%5Bavgweight%5D%5Bmax%5D=5&range%5Bnumweights%5D%5Bmin%5D=300&colfiltertype=&searchuser=&range%5Bminplayers%5D%5Bmax%5D=&range%5Bmaxplayers%5D%5Bmin%5D=&playerrangetype=normal&range%5Bleastplaytime%5D%5Bmin%5D=&range%5Bplaytime%5D%5Bmax%5D=&B1=Submit']Results.[/URL] In addition to those, I personally think Root, Scythe, and Gloomhaven are decently complex as well. And there are games that are closer analogues to the RPG experience, like Gloomhaven, as well as other dungeon crawlers like Descent and Swords and Sorcery, though their complexity varies and their focus is usually much more narrow than what we get in an RPG. There's also the entire board game subgenre of wargames which individually might not be hugely popular but there are a lot of people playing them, and they are generally at least medium complexity (ranging from simpler to absolute nightmares like Campaign for North Africa, though that's certainly not contemporary). That said, I don't know that I'd argue that any of those are as complex as PF2. Board games and card games as well tend to have narrow scopes to their rules. RPGs need to have rules for things that will never come up in play for some groups but will come up often for other groups, because of the nature of RPGs. PF2 does have a lot of rules like that, and some of those specific rules are quite complex, in addition to the rules that are at the core of many RPGS (combat) being complex to start with. I don't think we can actually argue any board games are as complex as PF2. Maybe not even as complex as 5E. I also feel like I spent way too much time on this comment just to basically say, "I don't think any are." [/QUOTE]
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