Ares I-X

[Rackhir]

Yes, but some of us would prefer to try to make a silk purse from a sow's ear than to just let all our stuff fall on the floor forgotten.

There was barely funding to get a somewhat updated Apollo capsule up to the ISS. There was never any budget for Ares to accomplish the goals of going to the moon or mars. There was never any funding for actually doing anything other than a few vague design studies. There was NEVER anything there.

You might be happy with a couple of power point presentations and CGI animations that will have as their only real world effect the selling of some issues of "Popular Science".

Me I'd like to see some actual programs that have the funding to actually accomplish something. Preferably something that will actually build some infrastructure that will enable something to get done other than satellites and some vanity projects.

That hasn't happened or been in the cards for 40 years now.

Burt Rutan, SpaceX and the X-prize have done more in the past 5 years towards that goal than NASA has in the past 30. They've failed us horribly and that's something I can't forgive them for. These continuing exercises in PR to make the Prez look like he's got a vision, only rub salt in the wounds.

 

[Orius]

Yes, but some of us would prefer to try to make a silk purse from a sow's ear than to just let all our stuff fall on the floor forgotten.

Burt Rutan, SpaceX and the X-prize have done more in the past 5 years towards that goal than NASA has in the past 30. They've failed us horribly and that's something I can't forgive them for. These continuing exercises in PR to make the Prez look like he's got a vision, only rub salt in the wounds.

A lot of the problems delves into politics, so we can't really get into depth here but to keep things simple, a lot of people think space is just a waste of money, and that money is better spent elsewhere. Personally, I think that's short sighted and harmful to America over the long term.

Sop the announcemtn is disappointing, but maybe Obama's just being realistic. If it does help private companies develop spaceflight effectively, it may benefit us more in the long-term. Right now these private companies are just doing space tourism which is ok for a start. There's no place left on Earth to vacation for the rich to brag about, since they've all been everywhere, so letting them go up in space will give them something to show off. That may help these private companies start making money to develop more useful long-term projects. Plus they don't have to go on the shuttle, ISS or any other way they were getting into space and getting in the way of the astronauts who actually have work to do.

 

[Umbran]

Sop the announcemtn is disappointing, but maybe Obama's just being realistic. If it does help private companies develop spaceflight effectively, it may benefit us more in the long-term.

My basic issues are twofold:

1) No space-tech development has ever gone anywhere without a very specific goal in mind. The new plan has some claim that there will be research on heavy-lift systems, but it is not linked to any particular goal, which means tht it can easily be cut, because "it won't hurt anything we've currently got rolling"

2) Commercial interests have very little need for heavy-lift capabilities.

There is an ecology of space exploration and development. Yes, commercial interests should be playing a bigger role - there is no reason why they should not be handling the NEO and basic satellite work - but they aren't the ones to be doing the really hard, really expensive work, which is simply too risky for them. The majority of the call for heavy lift is largely speculative, not clearly of commercial value in and of itself.

 

[Orius]

My basic issues are twofold:

...

2) Commercial interests have very little need for heavy-lift capabilities.

That's a good point. Heavy lifting is important, and like you said private companies won't be bothering with it over the short term, since they'll be using light payloads. I don't see them making any investments in this until there's a need for ships to make cargo runs to the moon, Mars, space stations, etc.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

My basic issues are twofold:

1) No space-tech development has ever gone anywhere without a very specific goal in mind. The new plan has some claim that there will be research on heavy-lift systems, but it is not linked to any particular goal, which means tht it can easily be cut, because "it won't hurt anything we've currently got rolling"

2) Commercial interests have very little need for heavy-lift capabilities.

There is an ecology of space exploration and development. Yes, commercial interests should be playing a bigger role - there is no reason why they should not be handling the NEO and basic satellite work - but they aren't the ones to be doing the really hard, really expensive work, which is simply too risky for them.
The majority of the call for heavy lift is largely speculative, not clearly of commercial value in and of itself.

As long as corporations don't do the regular stuff like getting satellites into space or getting research satellites for science institutes into space, they will never get the know how and infrastructure to even try the hard, really expensive work - like heavy lifting for manned Moon or Mars missions.

Such companies could simply be service providers for research institutes. And part of their job might be anticipating (and sometimes even creating - marketing, advertisement, lobbiysm?) the demand for new products.
Once companies get involved in this and get the necessary experience, they might work very hard to give us reasons for buying the "heavy stuff", too.

Also:

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Aaaaaw...
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[Umbran]

As long as corporations don't do the regular stuff like getting satellites into space or getting research satellites for science institutes into space, they will never get the know how and infrastructure to even try the hard, really expensive work - like heavy lifting for manned Moon or Mars missions.

True. I have no problem with having the private sector taking a greater role as partners and providers.

My qualms are merely that NASA needs to have a target, and now they don't. Left without a specific goal, they will flail and thrash and not produce anything useful. That's a good way to give people an excuse to cut funding.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

True. I have no problem with having the private sector taking a greater role as partners and providers.

My qualms are merely that NASA needs to have a target, and now they don't. Left without a specific goal, they will flail and thrash and not produce anything useful. That's a good way to give people an excuse to cut funding.

Ah, okay. Yes, that's probably a justified worry.