D&D 5E Arguing for Advantage

[Fauchard1520]

If there are any rogues in your life, you may be familiar with a certain strain of argument. Stop me if you’ve heard this one before.

“But I’m standing slightly to one side of the golem. It didn’t know I was there!”

Or how about this one?

“I thought we were playing with the flanking rules?”

Or if you have the questionably-good fortune to party with an assassin, perhaps you’ve heard some variation on this one?

“I’m first in the initiative. That’s surprise, right? That’s an auto-crit, right?”

Part of this is just the nature of the game. You're incentivized to ask for advantage by the mechanics of the game. But part of this is egregious argument, and it can get old in a hurry if you let it.

Therefore, in the name of amusing D&D anecdotes, what is the most egregious example you’ve seen of “greedy PC rhetoric?” Did it work, or did it get shut down? And more generally, how for should DMs be willing to put up with this behavior?

(Comic for illustrative purposes.)

 

[TheAlkaizer]

Different groups play differently. I don't actively discourage these requests that are based on rules more than roleplay.

It's the same difference as between: a) A player asking if he can jump on the ogre's shoulder, to then jump on a ledge and b) A player asking if he can roll acrobatics to increase his jump height. Option A fits and tends to create the type of games that I'm interested in participating in, the second one doesn't.

So, I would shut down anything like "Can I get advantage because I've opened the blinds and he has the light in his face?" but would be happy to have players ask "As I opened the blinds, could it be possible that the light coming in blinds some of the enemies?".

The end result might be the same. But they both foster a very different mindset and approach. So, that stuff will happen, just try and encourage players to do it in a way that fits the game environment that you're trying to create.

 

[Lakesidefantasy]

I had a Player with an Assassin who thought he could get Surprise multiple times during a combat encounter.

In the past, during a Session Zero, I have asked Players to tell me what their Characters are doing rather than what they themselves are doing. I will decide what needs to be rolled, if anything.

For instance, tell me that your character, "is shaking the hand of this suspicious stranger we met in the forest, and patting him down nonchalantly in order to see if there is any 'funny business' going on." Do that rather than grab a d20 and say, "I roll to disbelieve!"

Half the time I won't even ask for a roll, I'll just give you the information you seek, like, "this person is garbed in illusion, in fact the seem to be naked, as you only feel bare skin. It's probably that hag you're looking for."

 

[Charlaquin]

I experienced this a lot more during the playtest and the early days of 5e. As players have gotten more familiar with the system and as more codified options have been published, there’s been less and less of it. Which I understand is probably a positive thing for the players, since it means they know what they can and can’t reliably do. But as a DM I do kind of miss the more conversational feel of early 5e.

 

[Helpful NPC Thom]

Let me just pop in to say this is why Burning Wheel is great: the players are expected to negotiate for a bonus die on their rolls. The GM is expected to give it to them. The mechanics work with the system whereas in 5e it often feels like it's a tightrope between the GM being too lenient or too strict. Don't want to hand out too much advantage, or dice rolls are superfluous, but you also don't want the players to feel discouraged.

Generally, I err on the side of giving it to them. My suggestion: let them argue for it every time and get advantage every single time. But make the consequences of a failed roll absolutely dire if they do so. Yes, you can have advantage, but if you fail XYZ will happen.

Say yes and roll the dice.

Obviously this doesn't address the question posed, and alas, I've never had players wheedle advantage out of me.

 

[Plaguescarred]

PC begging for advantage on saving throw against a monster ability or feature it previously saw used on an ally.

 

[Mort]

I don't mind players asking (once) - It's in the nature of the game.

I've had players make the argument that the target is too big too miss (I'm a Halfling and that's an ogre - I should get advantage here).

With Tasha's and steady aim (which I allow), it's a near moot point now. For the cost of a bonus action and your movement for the turn the rogue is guaranteed advantage. No wheedling necessary.

 

[Oofta]

They can ask, but don't argue if I say no. Clarifications are okay, and I do sometimes grant advantage outside of strict rules based on some kind of other check. For example, leaping off a balcony, aiming for the back of the ogre roll an athletics check and if you succeed you have advantage on a failure disadvantage and you fall prone no matter what.

It can add some fun flavor to the game if not abused.

 

[Swarmkeeper]

Like others here, I prefer the mindset encouraged by these kinds of ideas:

Replace Flanking with Cinematic Advantage

Instead of using the optional flanking rule, offer deals to players to trade ability checks using in-world features to gain advantage on their next attack. Chapter 8 of the Dungeon Master's Guide offe...

slyflourish.com

 

[Dausuul]

Let me just pop in to say this is why Burning Wheel is great: the players are expected to negotiate for a bonus die on their rolls.

As a player, being expected to negotiate on every single die roll would drive me insane in short order.