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<blockquote data-quote="dead" data-source="post: 1646559" data-attributes="member: 18707">I think some people are missing my point. It doesn't matter what AC this PC *should* have; in fact, let's pretend the PC is naked.Now, the naked PC has an AC of, let's say, 15. This AC includes her +5 DEX bonus. Now, besides the fact that this PC also has a +15 Reflex bonus while they are naked (they are high level plus it includes DEX bonus), it's almost certain that they'll be hit with a cream pie in the face. On the other hand, if a lightning bolt is hurled at her (and I don't see any difference between dodging a lightning bolt from a cream pie -- in fact, the cream pie should be easier to dodge) then she's got a very good chance of dodging the lightning bolt's DC which would, maybe, be as high as 18.So, the point is that there seems to be a problem in the game mechanics when the PC cannot also dodge (ie. Reflex save) a pie in the face. What's more, if you allowed this, then the same PC should also be allowed to &quot;dodge&quot; not only ranged touch attacks like the pie, but ANY attack!I don't know, it's just a discrepancy I've found in the rules. Whenever Reflex is allowed, the PC dodges with superhuman agility, but when a ranged touch attack is called for, then 9 times out of 10 the PC will be hit. To add to the problem, I don't see much difference (as I've mentioned above) from dodging fireballs and lightning bolts to dodging arrows, ray spells, cream pies, etc.I'm not one who likes to change the rules much, so whenever this problem comes up in my game I usually just mumble to the player: &quot;It's just a glitch in the rules. Grin and bear it.&quot;Perhaps someone can give me a &quot;plausible excuse&quot; for these rules next time I have to appease my grumbling player?</blockquote>

[QUOTE="dead, post: 1646559, member: 18707"] I think some people are missing my point. It doesn't matter what AC this PC *should* have; in fact, let's pretend the PC is naked. Now, the naked PC has an AC of, let's say, 15. This AC includes her +5 DEX bonus. Now, besides the fact that this PC also has a +15 Reflex bonus while they are naked (they are high level plus it includes DEX bonus), it's almost certain that they'll be hit with a cream pie in the face. On the other hand, if a lightning bolt is hurled at her (and I don't see any difference between dodging a lightning bolt from a cream pie -- in fact, the cream pie should be easier to dodge) then she's got a very good chance of dodging the lightning bolt's DC which would, maybe, be as high as 18. So, the point is that there seems to be a problem in the game mechanics when the PC cannot also dodge (ie. Reflex save) a pie in the face. What's more, if you allowed this, then the same PC should also be allowed to "dodge" not only ranged touch attacks like the pie, but ANY attack! I don't know, it's just a discrepancy I've found in the rules. Whenever Reflex is allowed, the PC dodges with superhuman agility, but when a ranged touch attack is called for, then 9 times out of 10 the PC will be hit. To add to the problem, I don't see much difference (as I've mentioned above) from dodging fireballs and lightning bolts to dodging arrows, ray spells, cream pies, etc. I'm not one who likes to change the rules much, so whenever this problem comes up in my game I usually just mumble to the player: "It's just a glitch in the rules. Grin and bear it." Perhaps someone can give me a "plausible excuse" for these rules next time I have to appease my grumbling player? [/QUOTE]

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