Armor Class/Reflex Save woes. Help.

[dead]

One of my players has a PC who has a very good Reflex save but her AC is quite low. This means she can dodge a fireball with a 20 ft. radius (Reflex save) but cannot dodge a cream pie thrown at her (ranged touch attack).

How can I allieviate this problem in the game?

I was thinking: Why shouldn't a PC make a Reflex save EVERY time they are attacked with a melee or ranged attack? This would be like a "dodge" roll. Of course, AC would stay, but you'd take the DEX bonus (and deflection bonus?) out of it so that it was truly *armor* class.

I'm worried that this solution will slow down combat, though.

Are there any other solutions to this apparent flaw in the D&D game?

[Many things in the D&D game used ranged touch attacks: nets, rays, touch spells, etc.]

 

[Ranger REG]

Don't put her in melee.

 

[dead]

Don't put her in melee.

A cream pie in the face isn't melee. It's shear humiliation to a PC with Reflex +20 but AC 15.

 

[Ranger REG]

She can always take Total Defense. Use covers, even if it's mean hiding behind fellow allies. She can increase bonus to Fighting Defensively and Total Defense by increasing rank in Tumble skill. Then there is the Dodge feat tree that includes Mobility.

Sure, it's humiliating but she's not dead.

 

[Thanee]

Are there any other solutions to this apparent flaw in the D&D game?

Yes, don't rack up on bonuses to reflex save without getting some bonuses to AC also.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Aaron2]

One of my players has a PC who has a very good Reflex save but her AC is quite low. This means she can dodge a fireball with a 20 ft. radius (Reflex save) but cannot dodge a cream pie thrown at her (ranged touch attack).

This used to bother me quite a bit. However, I came to the conclusion that touch AC doesn't really relfect any active dodging. The character is doing what she was doing and out of the corner of her eye spied a cream pie. Her Dex bonus to AC was just general shuck and jive as well as any last second jump out of the way. I'd like to see Total Defense give a character a Reflex save vs opponents attack roll to actively dodge all incoming attacks (instead of the +4 AC).


Aaron

 

[diaglo]

take some levels of monk

 

[Felix]

Ok, she at most has a Dex of 20, which means her only bonus to AC is Dex, giving AC 15. She is aware that most folks can wear light armor and retain their abilities, yeah?

And so she has a Reflex mod of +15. You must be joking. There are definite ways to do this, but it means that a) she has a few levels under her belt and b) probably has some items to assist.

This means:
-She decided not to take the Dodge, Mobility route since she spent her feats elsewhere.
-She decided not to invest in Rings of Protection (deflection bonuses) since her money is tied up in increasing her Reflex save.

Seems to me she made her bed and now doesn't want to sleep in it.

Yes, don't rack up on bonuses to reflex save without getting some bonuses to AC also.

Bye
Thanee

'zactly.

 

[Aaron2]

-She decided not to invest in Rings of Protection (deflection bonuses) since her money is tied up in increasing her Reflex save.

That's not really fair. A cloak of resistance costs half of what a ring of protection does and they are fairly common low level magic items. Characters often don't get to "decide to invest" since they can only use the magic items that they find.


Aaron

 

[mmadsen]

Why shouldn't a PC make a Reflex save EVERY time they are attacked with a melee or ranged attack? This would be like a "dodge" roll. Of course, AC would stay, but you'd take the DEX bonus (and deflection bonus?) out of it so that it was truly *armor* class.

You don't need a Reflex roll to achieve your goal; you simply need to add a character's Ref bonus to AC, like the Defense bonus in other d20 games.

Of course, then you have other issues.