[Daggerheart] Looking for some feedback on a (currently incomplete) class and domain

[Faolyn]

Thank you for the input!

My first instinct here is that it's certainly a cool basis but I don't like armour as a choice for this subclass; it feels as if armour should be Relic + Bone or even Splendour rather than Blade. Torchbearer looks inspiring.

If I were creating the class from scratch, I would have stuck with weapons only. The actual Level Up class has weapons, armor, and spellcasting focus. I can see getting rid of the armor, though, because the player chose weapon.

Getting into the gritty details of the domain I see a lot to tweak; this is going to sound far more critical than I intend it to be because detail matters in a fundamentally cool idea:

• Glamour (L1): A very nice idea with nice mechanics, but I'd rather see a transformation than a glamour for the weapon, turning it into something that looks and currently is harmless. (Something like a bracelet, a necklace, a belt). I can think of a number of transforming weapons but few glamoured ones.

Good point!

• Sparks of Power (L1): On Fire, Frozen, or Electrified aren't standard conditions (Daggerheart doesn't have many). Cool power, but it needs expressing using things like Vulnerable or Restrained.

There are those... "pseudo-conditions" like On Fire and Asleep.

• Immovable (L1): Feels like a lot of set-up for a complex result. You need to not have your One Big Thing.

This is actually an ability the player chose for their weapon.

• Protective Aura (L2): +1 Evasion is waaay too weak. It's basically +1 AC

Good point. I'll raise that a bit.

 

[Fanaelialae]

I like it, but I think the Relic Domain's relic focus is a bit too narrow. Too many of the powers either work only on a relic or require a relic, IMO.

For example, being able to Glamour the relic is cool, but why not other objects? That opens it up for more creative applications. For example, maybe the bard is going to try to bluff his way into a restricted area, and I want to Glamour his rapier to look like an 'old man's walking stick'. I don't think that's excessively powerful, and it feels in line with the spirit of DH.

The other advantage of that approach is that the relic domain then is no longer contingent upon the class granting a feature to bond a relic. You could create any kind of appropriate class and grant it access to that domain (an Inventor or Spellsword class, for example). I think it's fine to have those kinds of restrictions for the Weilder and its subclass abilities, but it seems excessively restrictive for a domain, in my opinion.

YMMV

 

[Faolyn]

I like it, but I think the Relic Domain's relic focus is a bit too narrow. Too many of the powers either work only on a relic or require a relic, IMO.

For example, being able to Glamour the relic is cool, but why not other objects? That opens it up for more creative applications. For example, maybe the bard is going to try to bluff his way into a restricted area, and I want to Glamour his rapier to look like an 'old man's walking stick'. I don't think that's excessively powerful, and it feels in line with the spirit of DH.

The other advantage of that approach is that the relic domain then is no longer contingent upon the class granting a feature to bond a relic. You could create any kind of appropriate class and grant it access to that domain (an Inventor or Spellsword class, for example). I think it's fine to have those kinds of restrictions for the Weilder and its subclass abilities, but it seems excessively restrictive for a domain, in my opinion.

YMMV

The biggest problem is I don't have a good idea for a second class that relies on objects. There's always an artificer, but I found I had a hard time imagining one in DH. Which is a me problem--I'm not really into the artificer as a concept, so I haven't been able to do the kind of deep delve that would let me make one as a class.

I haven't gone back over it yet, but I will with an eye for "genericizing" it a bit more.

 

[Vael]

The biggest problem is I don't have a good idea for a second class that relies on objects. There's always an artificer, but I found I had a hard time imagining one in DH. Which is a me problem--I'm not really into the artificer as a concept, so I haven't been able to do the kind of deep delve that would let me make one as a class.

I haven't gone back over it yet, but I will with an eye for "genericizing" it a bit more.

Which is kinda funny, because I've been thinking about an Artificer class, and the Relic domain, if renamed to Enchantment/Infusion/Artifice and flavoured as the Artificer enchanting/creating the item rather than tapping into the Relic's power gets you a lot of the way there.

My own thought is that an Artificer class would need two new Domains, one about creating temporary magic items, and a second for Alchemy, creating bombs, oils and potions.

Anyway, there's a lot here, and I haven't read the class this is based on, so I'm going to focus purely on the Domain, here are some notes:

Sparks of Power
Level 1 Relic Ability
Recall Cost: 1
Your relic burns with elemental power. On a successful attack, or when you would take damage from a melee physical attack, you can mark 1 Stress to cause the attacker or your target to mark 1 Stress and be temporarily On Fire, Frozen, or Electrified, your choice.

As others have said, Sparks of Power needs to define what these three conditions do. My thought would be On fire would deal extra damage after the creature acts, Frozen would inhibit speed and Electrified would give disadvantage on attacks. That said, that makes this a very powerful first level power.

Protective Aura
Level 2 Relic Spell
Recall Cost: 1
Make a Spellcast Roll (13) and mark a stress to grant an ally within Close range +1 Evasion to one attack that is targeting them.

For an interrupt like this, you should be calling for a reaction roll. This is also really challenging as a power, because you are only making an exact hit a miss.

Sidereal
Level 4 Relic Spell
Recall Cost: 2
Make a Spellcast Roll (12). On a success, use your relic to momentarily open a portal to another point you can see within Far range. Spend a Hope to teleport to that point. Another creature can attempt to pass through the portal with you by making a Resistance Roll and marking 2 Stress.

Resistance Roll?

True Form
Level 8 Relic Spell
Recall Cost: 2
Make a Spellcast Roll (15) and spend 3 Hope. On a success, you grow to enormous size. Your Evasion is reduced by -1, but your damage thresholds both increase by 3, and your physical attacks inflict an additional 2d12 damage.

Need a duration. I'm guessing until next rest?

Power Unleashed
Level 10 Relic Ability
Recall Cost: 1
Make a Spellcast Roll (18). On a success, once per long rest, you can deal direct damage to a target.

This just doesn't work as a power. Direct damage bypasses armor, monsters do not have armor slots.

 

[Fanaelialae]

The biggest problem is I don't have a good idea for a second class that relies on objects. There's always an artificer, but I found I had a hard time imagining one in DH. Which is a me problem--I'm not really into the artificer as a concept, so I haven't been able to do the kind of deep delve that would let me make one as a class.

I haven't gone back over it yet, but I will with an eye for "genericizing" it a bit more.

If you want to incentivize using the relic, you could could always give the class bond an extra feature such as:

When you use a Relic Domain ability or spell that requires you to mark Stress, you can mark one less Stress if the target is your relic.

Then Glamour could be modified to work on any object but cost 1 Stress. That way they can use it on an ally's weapons for 1 Stress, or their own relic for free.

 

[Faolyn]

Which is kinda funny, because I've been thinking about an Artificer class, and the Relic domain, if renamed to Enchantment/Infusion/Artifice and flavoured as the Artificer enchanting/creating the item rather than tapping into the Relic's power gets you a lot of the way there.

That seems like it fall into the same trap I have--it's too tied in to the class.

My ideal would be to have the spells/abilities be tied to the item, but whether the item is a particular or specific one is up to the flavor of the associated class and the individual player. So (for my Relics--which I may end up renaming) the item could be the Wielder's bonded artifact or the Artificer's (or whatever) created object. I just haven't figured out how quite to do that yet. Mostly because I don't have a good idea of what an Artificer's objects should be able to do.

My own thought is that an Artificer class would need two new Domains, one about creating temporary magic items, and a second for Alchemy, creating bombs, oils and potions.

I can definitely see an Alchemy-type domain, possibly similar to Codex in the sense that each card could have multiple minor abilities. That's definitely a good use for tokens. Put X number of tokens on one of these cards, spend one to activate any of the concoctions listed on it. Not every card would need to have multiple abilities, though, especially when it comes to "elixir of life"/"philosopher's stone'"-type abilities, but the weaker ones, definitely.

Anyway, there's a lot here, and I haven't read the class this is based on, so I'm going to focus purely on the Domain, here are some notes:

As others have said, Sparks of Power needs to define what these three conditions do. My thought would be On fire would deal extra damage after the creature acts, Frozen would inhibit speed and Electrified would give disadvantage on attacks. That said, that makes this a very powerful first level power.

Definitely going to be defining the three Sparks of Power conditions. And I'm going to yoink those options! But yeah, it may be too powerful. I haven't quite gotten a hand on power levels yet; they're a bit all over the place in the game and I haven't quite found the pattern yet.

Good ideas for the other things! Thanks for pointing out the direct damage thing with monsters. I can't believe I forgot that!

(Also, Resistance Roll was a typo; it shoulda been Reaction.)