Advancement, A Weird Idea?

[doctorbadwolf]

So we don't really care about XP tracking, but we don't find any value in arbitrary advance either.

So the purpose of what we have added in FF8 = is to highlight roleplay.

Asking questions at the end of the session, which play into drama, adventure, and archetype portrayal not only gives players clear goals to play the game, but it also gives everyone a moment to shine and restate those cool moments in game that they achieved these things. (good session recap too)

So we let that be tied to a XP pool you spend from, that way it keeps that goal-engine going. So far it has worked incredibly well for new players and veterans alike, our plots go farther and deeper now that what is dramatic is highlighted and rewarded.

So at the end of a session, you ask questions and award xp based on that?

 

[Staffan]

When you have spent 50xp (for levels 2-10, 100xp for all levels after that) you gain a level. Upon leveling you do get a few small incremental benefits but most of your advancement happens during play, and then you level when you have advanced to that point.

This bit reminds me a little of Earthdawn. In Earthdawn you spend Legend Points (basically XP) to improve your Talents and to a limited degree your attributes and when you've done enough of that you can qualify to advance to a new Circle. Doing so gives you access to new Talents, higher Durability (basically hp) and sometimes other benefits. Warhammer 4e also works on a similar basis, where once you have improved the stuff you can improve in your current career enough, you qualify to advance to a higher level in that career (which will raise your status, unlock new Talents and Skills to take, prevent you from taking some of the Talents you could have taken earlier, and eventually require you to acquire the stuff you need for your new career step). Doing so is completely optional though – nothing is stopping you from remaining a Pugilist in case you like the stuff that career offers more than that of a Pit Fighter or Pit Champion.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

This bit reminds me a little of Earthdawn. In Earthdawn you spend Legend Points (basically XP) to improve your Talents and to a limited degree your attributes and when you've done enough of that you can qualify to advance to a new Circle. Doing so gives you access to new Talents, higher Durability (basically hp) and sometimes other benefits. Warhammer 4e also works on a similar basis, where once you have improved the stuff you can improve in your current career enough, you qualify to advance to a higher level in that career (which will raise your status, unlock new Talents and Skills to take, prevent you from taking some of the Talents you could have taken earlier, and eventually require you to acquire the stuff you need for your new career step). Doing so is completely optional though – nothing is stopping you from remaining a Pugilist in case you like the stuff that career offers more than that of a Pit Fighter or Pit Champion.

Interesting. One of the things I’ve worked out recently is that Techniques are gained either in game as rewards, or by advancing your skills to a new level of Mastery. Levels increase the skill rank limit, so effectively the higher mastery techniques are level gated.

For the most part Traits are not level gated, but there are special traits I haven’t written in this iteration of the game yet that allow epic stuff like becoming a demigod, that used to just be very expensive, but will probably require level 9 now.

 

[RenleyRenfield]

So at the end of a session, you ask questions and award xp based on that?

Yup! And sometimes they gain enough to get an advancement and sometimes they need to save up a little more first. Then they spend, gain, rinse, repeat.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Yup! And sometimes they gain enough to get an advancement and sometimes they need to save up a little more first. Then they spend, gain, rinse, repeat.

Right on. Could you share some of the questions? I’m really curious, even if I don’t decide to go the same way.

 

[RenleyRenfield]

Right on. Could you share some of the questions? I’m really curious, even if I don’t decide to go the same way.

Here is a link to the FF8 game we made (link), so you can see the questions within the context of that game.
* Each game we do this for (FF8, Star Wars, Demon, Vampire, etc) = is a bespoke set of questions/criteria

Here is the FF8 here for quick view (FYI = players tend to get 1 Advancement every session, 10XP, and tend to get a Rank up every 3 or 4 sessions) =

At the end of each Session (or Mission), ask each player if they...

Gaining XP

• Gain 1 XP one per game when you embody your Archetype
• Gain 1 XP each time the ST uses an Intrusion on you
• Gain 1 XP when you accept a Fate’s Bargain
• Gain XP when you complete a SeeD Mission based on Tier
• Gain 2 XP when you have a duel with a Rival, win or lose
• Gain 1 XP when you roleplay drama from your Motivation
• Gain 1 XP when you make a roll having used a Flaw

Spending XP
It costs 10XP to take 1 Advancement. You may spend your XP on
any Advancement, even the same one over and over.

Advancements
You may select one per 10XP spent:

• Increase one Pool max by 3
• Increase Effort max by 1 (to a max of 5)
• Increase Edge max by 1 in a pool of your choice (to a max of 5)
• Increase a Skill from Trained to Specialist

Rank Up!
Once you have gotten 4 Advancements above, you Pick 1 Ability from your new Rank, or any Rank lower.

....

Here is an example from Apocalypse Keys, one of the best RPGs out there =

Each player answers the following questions for their PC:

• Did you express your monstrous nature and/or express your humanity? If yes, mark 1 XP.
• Did you learn something significant about yourself and/or your impending ruin? If yes, mark 1 XP.
• Did you learn something significant about a fellow monster? If yes, mark 1 XP.
• Did you uncover at least one Key of the apocalypse or attempt to Unlock Doom’s Door? If no, mark 1 Ruin

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Here is a link to the FF8 game we made (link), so you can see the questions within the context of that game.
* Each game we do this for (FF8, Star Wars, Demon, Vampire, etc) = is a bespoke set of questions/criteria

Here is the FF8 here for quick view (FYI = players tend to get 1 Advancement every session, 10XP, and tend to get a Rank up every 3 or 4 sessions) =

At the end of each Session (or Mission), ask each player if they...

Gaining XP

• Gain 1 XP one per game when you embody your Archetype
• Gain 1 XP each time the ST uses an Intrusion on you
• Gain 1 XP when you accept a Fate’s Bargain
• Gain XP when you complete a SeeD Mission based on Tier
• Gain 2 XP when you have a duel with a Rival, win or lose
• Gain 1 XP when you roleplay drama from your Motivation
• Gain 1 XP when you make a roll having used a Flaw

Spending XP
It costs 10XP to take 1 Advancement. You may spend your XP on
any Advancement, even the same one over and over.

Advancements
You may select one per 10XP spent:

• Increase one Pool max by 3
• Increase Effort max by 1 (to a max of 5)
• Increase Edge max by 1 in a pool of your choice (to a max of 5)
• Increase a Skill from Trained to Specialist

Rank Up!
Once you have gotten 4 Advancements above, you Pick 1 Ability from your new Rank, or any Rank lower.

....

Here is an example from Apocalypse Keys, one of the best RPGs out there =

Each player answers the following questions for their PC:

• Did you express your monstrous nature and/or express your humanity? If yes, mark 1 XP.
• Did you learn something significant about yourself and/or your impending ruin? If yes, mark 1 XP.
• Did you learn something significant about a fellow monster? If yes, mark 1 XP.
• Did you uncover at least one Key of the apocalypse or attempt to Unlock Doom’s Door? If no, mark 1 Ruin

Very interesting. Thanks!

Gonna deep dive now lol

 

[aramis erak]

I found that tracking success/fail for advancement in Mouse Guard often was a mild interruption for new-to-it players, but became quickly backgrounded by players to an almost imperceptable habit.

Burning wheel, with its more complex tracking, never did for me nor my players.