Advancement, A Weird Idea?

[doctorbadwolf]

@Umbran @Ruin Explorer @John Dallman

Here’s the new version of the idea.

During play you mark Experience one at a time, which can be used to buy minor or major traits.
Minor traits cost 1, major traits cost 3.
Skill Ranks are major traits, because they effectively count for 3 specialty ranks when making your dice pool for skill checks.
Specialty ranks are minor.

You can also gain resources and knowledge without it lending to your leveling, possibly including Techniques (which includes spells) on a very D&D wizard basis.

You can gain Skill Ranks “free” if you have at least one rank in each of its 3 specialties, consolidating those specialty ranks. The benefit is that there are benefits to reaching higher mastery in a skill like mastery techniques.

Advancement is tracked right next to the success ladder on the character sheet. You have 9 advancements before you can level up, and your experience is in a different box nearby. The experience section will say something succinct to the effect of the gist of how experiences are spent. The success ladder has “gain 1 advancement” right now next to Total Success, which I’ll change to “gain 1 Experience”.

The advancement box will have boxes to mark for advancement, obv, and the very basics of how that works, but the details of leveling up will be on a cheat sheet page to print with the character sheet. Possible half paged with the other half for character notes, detailed inventory, whatever, so you can have the cheater halfway under the charsheet, but that’s a future issue.

 

[RenleyRenfield]

It sounds like you are considering how we do Advancements in our Final Fantasy 8 game (link) , which a hack of the cypher systems methods... but better. lol.

And for us, getting 1 minor geek-up every game session or so is great! and the big ability gain after 4 advancements till feels like a level up!

 

[Theory of Games]

It seems way too complicated for something that a segment of the hobby doesn't really care about. There's always going to be players who aren't into the whole "level-up" thing - they just want to play their PC and have fun with friends. Then, there's looking at your sub-system and thinking about how GMs new to your system will understand and implement it. It probably seems a lot easier to grok because it's your system, but I can see GMs (like myself) wondering why there's all these "ranks" and "specialties"' and "techniques"

The crunchier the system, the smaller your piece of the hobby gets. Same with rules-lite. Mike Mearls said one of the big failings of 5e is they (the designers) put too much of the burden of running the game on GMs. GMs are the people that drive this hobby, so make your system as easy on them as you can

 

[doctorbadwolf]

It seems way too complicated for something that a segment of the hobby doesn't really care about. There's always going to be players who aren't into the whole "level-up" thing - they just want to play their PC and have fun with friends.

I cannot express how much I will never design a thing around people who don’t like that type of thing. Those players will mostly level up by proxy or learn the rules regardless of the system.

Then, there's looking at your sub-system and thinking about how GMs new to your system will understand and implement it. It probably seems a lot easier to grok because it's your system, but I can see GMs (like myself) wondering why there's all these "ranks" and "specialties"' and "techniques"

No type of game is for everyone.

The crunchier the system, the smaller your piece of the hobby gets. Same with rules-lite. Mike Mearls said one of the big failings of 5e is they (the designers) put too much of the burden of running the game on GMs. GMs are the people that drive this hobby, so make your system as easy on them as you can

Bro this is a fun hobby not a corporate boardroom, I’m not gonna design to grab the biggest piece of the market I can get or whatever. The game is fun. People enjoy playing it. It does its cool things well. Idk what else you would want from an indie game.

And quoting Mike Mearls at me is not gonna get a positive reaction, tbh.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

It sounds like you are considering how we do Advancements in our Final Fantasy 8 game (link) , which a hack of the cypher systems methods... but better. lol.

And for us, getting 1 minor geek-up every game session or so is great! and the big ability gain after 4 advancements till feels like a level up!

The idea of gaining a major trait after a certain number of minor traits is interesting. Get rid of tracking XP, since minor traits cost 1 exp anyway.

 

[dragoner]

In Kosmic eg Trav/Cepheus I give sort of "milestone" advancements to the players of a point that they can use to increase a skill, learn a new one, or increase a characteristic. It has little effect on the game, though they players really like it.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

In Kosmic eg Trav/Cepheus I give sort of "milestone" advancements to the players of a point that they can use to increase a skill, learn a new one, or increase a characteristic. It has little effect on the game, though they players really like it.

Yeah I really like being able to improve a little at a time.

 

[Blue]

Eg. When you get a total success without pushing the roll to do a basic move, you can gain a specialty rank. Meanwhile Skill Ranks require a certain amount of time training and practicing the Skill’s specialties and advancing at least one rank in a specialty under that skill. Minor traits can be learned in a day or with good rolls during a short rest.

Just spitballing here, but this sounds like it it could steamroll. Someone gets good rolls and gets more total successes, increasing their specialty rank, which leads to more total successes than the other characters which leads to quicker advancement, and so forth.

I'd rather tie it to failure, so someone with a high commonly used skill advances slower until other catch up.

Again, not knowing more about the system I could be completely off base.

 

[RenleyRenfield]

The idea of gaining a major trait after a certain number of minor traits is interesting. Get rid of tracking XP, since minor traits cost 1 exp anyway.

So we don't really care about XP tracking, but we don't find any value in arbitrary advance either.

So the purpose of what we have added in FF8 = is to highlight roleplay.

Asking questions at the end of the session, which play into drama, adventure, and archetype portrayal not only gives players clear goals to play the game, but it also gives everyone a moment to shine and restate those cool moments in game that they achieved these things. (good session recap too)

So we let that be tied to a XP pool you spend from, that way it keeps that goal-engine going. So far it has worked incredibly well for new players and veterans alike, our plots go farther and deeper now that what is dramatic is highlighted and rewarded.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Just spitballing here, but this sounds like it it could steamroll. Someone gets good rolls and gets more total successes, increasing their specialty rank, which leads to more total successes than the other characters which leads to quicker advancement, and so forth.

I'd rather tie it to failure, so someone with a high commonly used skill advances slower until other catch up.

Again, not knowing more about the system I could be completely off base.

No that’s fair, but I will point out that I have updated the concept (but not the OP, I’ll try to do that today), and rather than earning ranks directly, I’ve given in and gone back to Experience, but simplified exp to;

1 exp is enough to get one minor trait. Specialty ranks are minor traits.

3 exp is required for a major trait, which includes a skill rank or a bonus Attribute Point*.

You mark 1 Advancement when you have spent 3 exp. At 9 Advancements you gain a level.

Level is more like a tier increase than a D&D level. You gain one AP, and the limits on things like skill ranks go up.