Armor Proficiency prerequisites

[RigaMortus2]

In order to take certain Armor Proficiencies, you need certain prereqs. Platemail is Str 15 and Con 15.

What happens if you take the feat, but later lose the prereqs? Not sure that can happen in 4E, but just in case...

Secondly... The Paladin starts with Platemail Armor Proficiency. Does this mean they also need to have a 15 Str and Con otherwise they don't meet the prereqs?

 

[shadowguidex]

1) I don't believe there is any way that you can lose attribute points in 4E.

2) Wearing the armor does not require the 15 Str and Con, only taking the feat. Paladins do not need the feat, they automatically are proficient with that armor type, hence no, you do not need a 15 Str and Con to wear plate and avoid the non-proficient penalties.

 

[Ximenes088]

Class features aren't feats. You'll notice that things like Scale Specialization don't include "Scale Armor Proficiency Feat" among the prerequisites, they just include "training with scale armor". Paladins are proficient with all forms of armor as a class feature, so it doesn't matter what their stats are.

I've not seen any effects in 4e that lower attributes even temporarily, so I don't think that the question as asked is going to come up. If it did, I believe the standing rule is that if you lose your feat prerequisites due to retraining or the like, you lose use of the feat. But again, since class features are not feats, it's a moot point to most armor users.

 

[Danceofmasks]

PHB p193
If you ever lose the requirements for a feat ... you can't use the feat thereafter.


On armour and class features, D&D PHB FAQ (june 6) says a fighter with 12 con gains the proficiencies for free (regardless of prerequisites). Now we all know what they mean, but by their wording it can still be argued that fighters can't use the freely gained proficiency thereafter 'cos they've "lost" the prereq.
http://wizards.custhelp.com/cgi-bin...nNlYXJjaF9ubCZwX3BhZ2U9MQ**&p_li=&p_topview=1

 

[Danceofmasks]

But again, since class features are not feats, it's a moot point to most armor users.

PHB p52
An armor or weapon proficiency you gain from a class counts as the appropriate armor proficiency or weapon proficiency feat.

 

[RigaMortus2]

Class features aren't feats.

But the armor you are proficient in because of your class is not a Class Feature at all. It is a Class Trait.

The only Class Features a Paladin gets are:
Channel Divinity
Divine Challenge
Lay on Hands

They are all listed on page 91 under... Paladin Class Features...
Armor Proficinecy: Platemail is not among that list. That appears on page 89 on the list of Class Traits...

 

[ForbidenMaster]

But the armor you are proficient in because of your class is not a Class Feature at all. It is a Class Trait.

The only Class Features a Paladin gets are:
Channel Divinity
Divine Challenge
Lay on Hands

They are all listed on page 91 under... Paladin Class Features...
Armor Proficinecy: Platemail is not among that list. That appears on page 89 on the list of Class Traits...

Then replace "class features" with "class traits." The same rules apply. You can have an 8 in every stat and still wear plate as a pal. Your stats simply dont matter with regars to armor proficiency granted from your class.

 

[Hypersmurf]

PHB p52
An armor or weapon proficiency you gain from a class counts as the appropriate armor proficiency or weapon proficiency feat.

Right, but it doesn't count as the appropriate armor proficiency feat until it's an armor proficiency you gain from a class... so by the time it counts as a feat, it's not a feat you're going to take, it's a feat you already effectively have. Thus, the requirement to have the prerequisite ability score before taking the feat is irrelevant.

Similarly, since you never had the prerequisite ability score, you can't be deemed to have lost it just because you don't have it now. You'd only have lost it if you had it and then it went away.

-Hyp.

 

[Danceofmasks]

Character sheets do not track history.
If there's a feat listed, and the prerequisites are not met, it doesn't work.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Character sheets do not track history.
If there's a feat listed, and the prerequisites are not met, it doesn't work.

If there's a feat listed, and you've lost the prerequisites, it does not work.

If the character sheet doesn't provide enough information to determine if you've lost a prerequisite, then what you're describing is not a failure of the feat/proficiency rules, but perhaps a failure of the character sheet

-Hyp.