Nyaricus
First Post
thanks for the complements and such. i wish some would read that bit when they get all heated up in an argument. i think that'll get added to my sig, infact.Luthien Greyspear said:Thanks for the feedback so far, Nyaricus; I really appreciate it. Really. I know I'm arguing hard for my original positions, and you're arguing the argument, but that's what arguments are SUPPOSED to be. Strongly held intellectual positions that come to some sort of compromise or understanding.
sometimes, i even question myselfLuthien Greyspear said:So don't think I don't appreciate your criticism, as it all makes sense from your point of view.

all i haev to say to this . . .i dont think the pope would approve (someone had to say itLuthien Greyspear said:clerics are . . . fighters

huh, somehow in the whole of this, i missed out on the con mod=nat armour bonus. go figure; not that i addressed that issue, but rather the bonuses in general.Luthien Greyspear said:so Wis is more appropriate. As for the natural armor bonus at the highest levels, I wanted to make the class become truly prestigious, and since this class is all about AC...
well, seems my math was a bit off. pardon me. it was a bit, uh, early when i wrote that the other night (and i seem to be approaching that time as i write this; gotta stop posting at midnight on the boards). disregarding magical enhancements, you still get a pretty good ac, but i wont bother disputing this particular point any further. i dont feel liek blowing a gasget tongiht.Luthien Greyspear said:Your math is a bit off, I think, as is your sense of 'unbalanced'. The character mentioned above in the chain shirt does not have a low ASF chance; he has a 60% ASF. The tower shield has a 50% ASF and the chain shirt has a 20%. Since he's only got one level in Spellsword, his ASF is only knocked down by 10%. Yes, he could drop the Tower Shield, but that takes at least a movement action to drop (there are a lot of straps on one of those shields), and at least another movement action to pick it up again, if not a standard action. That's at least a full-round action AND a movement action to cast one spell with a low ASF.
true, and that is what balance is all about. pardon me for being a bit narrowminded in my opinions.Luthien Greyspear said:As for the unbalanced bit, how is a 9th-level character with the BAB and hp of a cleric and the spellcasting ability of a 4th-level character that has to worry about ASF, but who has a higher AC than some other characters of the same level unbalanced? Sounds like a great meat shield, but under-effective in other areas of the game.
true and true; also one of the reasons why i think the cleric is too weak in regards to multiclassing and such, but thats another rant.Luthien Greyspear said:Arcane spellcasters will be severely weakened by this class, as there is no reduction in ASF (that's what the spellsword is for). Divine casters will be less weakened, as there is no ASF to worry about, but if they dedicate themselves to this class, I for one would hope that there's another cleric in the group who's dedicated to spellcasting.
. . . . and one of the reasons why the cleric as is, is too powerful. ugh. yet again, another rant for another day. As for the part about better defense than a fighter, but lower BAB, isnt the purpose that? you get better at defending yourself. In that, i beleive there is a valid point.Luthien Greyspear said:Consider the difference between a Ftr 1/Clr 6/RAG 8 vs. a Clr 15. The gain of 8 more points of AC (assuming a 20 Wis and 16 Con) for one character is hardly worth the whole party losing access to holy word, resurrection, heal, blade barrier, forbiddance, plane shift, commune, or even divination. The multi-classed character is better at defending himself, and has a higher BAB, but isn't going to make much more of an impact than a dedicated fighter. The cleric can defend the entire party with his selection of spells, and can continue that usefulness after the fight is over.
true, 5 levels arent exactly a "dip"; as stated befoer, i was half ready for bed when i was finishing this up. And yes, the two level dip will help all sorts of characters, at the expense of normal skills and such. that is well balanced, so i dot have a true problem with that (as said before, my balance was a bit off when i apporached this)Luthien Greyspear said:Okay. If a character doesn't want to continue on, that's fine. Five-levels isn't quite what I'd consider a "dip", though, as it takes up a quarter of a non-epic character's potential class choices. The two-level is a bit of a dip, but considering the characters that focus on light armor, the loss of skill points (or bardic abilities) is more than an adequate payment for the AC bonus.
i was refering to initial character concept; not gandalf suddenly being like "gimme some fullplate a a shield, i wanna get right in the middle."Luthien Greyspear said:I don't know if I agree that EVERYONE wants to be a tank at some point, at least not with every character. Sure, every player wants to at some point, and my guess is that they tend to play fighters or paladins then. But someone playing a wizened old wizard? I'm thinking probably not.![]()
the biggest problem i have with this is that it favours min/maxers. when planning your character concept, you can basically say goodbye to a dex higher than 13, Int or cha. then, max out Wis, Str and Con, and wait to hit level 8. not to say that level 8 is an easy feat, but its a signifigate power boost all at once; and barbs would esp. flourish under this system, esp with medium armour and 10 levels in this class. (again, i am not saying to not be the best you can be, but this PrC is [in my mind] intended for straight up fighters, and the barb should take second seat to this)Luthien Greyspear said:As for the bonus types, I definitely want to stick with Dodge bonuses and Natural Armor bonuses. They are both established bonus types, with specific rules on when they do and don't apply. That causes the least amount of confusion and the greatest ease in integration to a character's AC. At the highest level, it also frees up a magic item slot for the dedicated RAG (he won't need an amulet of natural armor), so he can dedicate that to something else (most likely an amulet of health, of course...)
i'm more a european history buff -asian history takes a backseat to it- and my ignorance showsLuthien Greyspear said:Oh, and samurai traditionally ONLY used the katana in combat. They used it as a two-handed weapon that was well-balanced enough to use with one hand, which is why it's classified as a 'bastard sword' in 3E. The wakizashi was a matching blade that signified the owner's status as a samurai. Only the samurai were allowed to even HAVE wakizashi/katana sets; anyone else could only have the katana. Usually, the wakizashi wasn't even drawn unless the samurai had to commit seppuku.

again, another point taken off the top of my head. i figured when typing this out that it seemed just too easy, but oh well.Luthien Greyspear said:Nope, you forgot the 8 ranks in Craft (armorer). That requires a 5th-level character.
my logic is thus: an unnamed bonus (in leu of you +con/int/wis) promotes more equality for players who dabble into this class. also, unless i am again screwing up on rules, dont you get to keep unnamed bonuses to AC no matter what? this would help give a more "total defense" feel, so that even if you are flat-footed, etc, you may have a nice AC. I also understadn the need for flaour in a PrC many would not touch. i do see many similarities between this and the dwarven defender PrC; but i wouldnt want to basically rape the DD PrC for ideas. yuo obviously haev good ones of your own; i am just trynig to help "work out the bugs" and such.Luthien Greyspear said:Um, I'm not following this logic. How does an unnamed bonus serve any class better or worse than a Dodge bonus or a Natural Armor bonus? If you mean that there should just be a scaling AC bonus like the monk, I get it. I don't think I want to use it, but I get it. I still think that the character's preferred armor should reflect his natural tendencies (Int or Wis, with Con for the real meat-shields). Monks ALL learn combat evasion techniques as a science, so they all get the AC bonus. The RAG is more...organic in his approach.
again, another good point. i have another thread disscussing weapon profs here which discusses toward the end the idea of it the idea of regional weapon (and thus armour) profs. why should some guy from, say France, whos never seen a Arabian be able to use a scimitar as effectively as his longsword? because WotC are right, thats why. (thast what id tell em if asked)Luthien Greyspear said:True, the Samurai armor in OA is not exotic, but perhaps it should be for characters from other cultures.
i like that; make the uses 3+RAG int mod/day, and itll be fine (IMHO) also, another idea would be to give any armour worn the light fortification ability, perhaps called "Fill in the Gaps," or something to that effect. that would be a nice level 7 ability, and woulds suit the idea of a bastion of defense. hey! thats a gives me a good idea for the name of the special ability you made up > Bastion of Defiance.Luthien Greyspear said:Yeah, that last level is bothering me. I thought of enhancing the character's ability to resist Sunder attempts, perhaps allowing him to shatter weapons on his armor with a held action. Sort of like a counterspell attempt. Hmm...held action, weapons that attempt to sunder the character's equipment take equal damage when the sunder attempt is made. As the RAG has a bonus to his equipment's hardness, and the attacker probably doesn't, that would usually end in the RAG's favor. Axe handles would shatter, blades would snap, and enemies would be rapidly less effective. Sound good?
true, we do need a name for this guy. i entered in "armoured" into thesaurus.com and got back the following: adamantine, armored, brass-bound, durable, everlasting, firm, incorruptible, indestructible, infrangible, invulnerable, lasting, nonbreakable, perdurable, resistant, rugged, shatterproof, solid, tight, tough, toughened, unshakable, unyielding[/]Luthien Greyspear said:You're right that I should probably add a little more flavor to the class, so that people understand it a little better. A name would help, too. (In my mind, I keep coming back to Colossus, because of the armor as a second skin angle. That name conjures up something more...offensive rather than defensive. Also really big.)
i like the sounds of the following: Iron-bound Guardian, Adamantine Warrior, Unbreakable One, Battle Ward, etc
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YESSSSS!!! 100 posts!!!!!! *pats himself on the back*
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