Armor Specialist PrC

Luthien Greyspear said:
Thanks for the feedback so far, Nyaricus; I really appreciate it. Really. I know I'm arguing hard for my original positions, and you're arguing the argument, but that's what arguments are SUPPOSED to be. Strongly held intellectual positions that come to some sort of compromise or understanding.
thanks for the complements and such. i wish some would read that bit when they get all heated up in an argument. i think that'll get added to my sig, infact.

Luthien Greyspear said:
So don't think I don't appreciate your criticism, as it all makes sense from your point of view.
sometimes, i even question myself :P

Luthien Greyspear said:
clerics are . . . fighters
all i haev to say to this . . .i dont think the pope would approve (someone had to say it :P)

Luthien Greyspear said:
so Wis is more appropriate. As for the natural armor bonus at the highest levels, I wanted to make the class become truly prestigious, and since this class is all about AC...
huh, somehow in the whole of this, i missed out on the con mod=nat armour bonus. go figure; not that i addressed that issue, but rather the bonuses in general.

Luthien Greyspear said:
Your math is a bit off, I think, as is your sense of 'unbalanced'. The character mentioned above in the chain shirt does not have a low ASF chance; he has a 60% ASF. The tower shield has a 50% ASF and the chain shirt has a 20%. Since he's only got one level in Spellsword, his ASF is only knocked down by 10%. Yes, he could drop the Tower Shield, but that takes at least a movement action to drop (there are a lot of straps on one of those shields), and at least another movement action to pick it up again, if not a standard action. That's at least a full-round action AND a movement action to cast one spell with a low ASF.
well, seems my math was a bit off. pardon me. it was a bit, uh, early when i wrote that the other night (and i seem to be approaching that time as i write this; gotta stop posting at midnight on the boards). disregarding magical enhancements, you still get a pretty good ac, but i wont bother disputing this particular point any further. i dont feel liek blowing a gasget tongiht.

Luthien Greyspear said:
As for the unbalanced bit, how is a 9th-level character with the BAB and hp of a cleric and the spellcasting ability of a 4th-level character that has to worry about ASF, but who has a higher AC than some other characters of the same level unbalanced? Sounds like a great meat shield, but under-effective in other areas of the game.
true, and that is what balance is all about. pardon me for being a bit narrowminded in my opinions.

Luthien Greyspear said:
Arcane spellcasters will be severely weakened by this class, as there is no reduction in ASF (that's what the spellsword is for). Divine casters will be less weakened, as there is no ASF to worry about, but if they dedicate themselves to this class, I for one would hope that there's another cleric in the group who's dedicated to spellcasting.
true and true; also one of the reasons why i think the cleric is too weak in regards to multiclassing and such, but thats another rant.

Luthien Greyspear said:
Consider the difference between a Ftr 1/Clr 6/RAG 8 vs. a Clr 15. The gain of 8 more points of AC (assuming a 20 Wis and 16 Con) for one character is hardly worth the whole party losing access to holy word, resurrection, heal, blade barrier, forbiddance, plane shift, commune, or even divination. The multi-classed character is better at defending himself, and has a higher BAB, but isn't going to make much more of an impact than a dedicated fighter. The cleric can defend the entire party with his selection of spells, and can continue that usefulness after the fight is over.
. . . . and one of the reasons why the cleric as is, is too powerful. ugh. yet again, another rant for another day. As for the part about better defense than a fighter, but lower BAB, isnt the purpose that? you get better at defending yourself. In that, i beleive there is a valid point.

Luthien Greyspear said:
Okay. If a character doesn't want to continue on, that's fine. Five-levels isn't quite what I'd consider a "dip", though, as it takes up a quarter of a non-epic character's potential class choices. The two-level is a bit of a dip, but considering the characters that focus on light armor, the loss of skill points (or bardic abilities) is more than an adequate payment for the AC bonus.
true, 5 levels arent exactly a "dip"; as stated befoer, i was half ready for bed when i was finishing this up. And yes, the two level dip will help all sorts of characters, at the expense of normal skills and such. that is well balanced, so i dot have a true problem with that (as said before, my balance was a bit off when i apporached this)

Luthien Greyspear said:
I don't know if I agree that EVERYONE wants to be a tank at some point, at least not with every character. Sure, every player wants to at some point, and my guess is that they tend to play fighters or paladins then. But someone playing a wizened old wizard? I'm thinking probably not. :)
i was refering to initial character concept; not gandalf suddenly being like "gimme some fullplate a a shield, i wanna get right in the middle."

Luthien Greyspear said:
As for the bonus types, I definitely want to stick with Dodge bonuses and Natural Armor bonuses. They are both established bonus types, with specific rules on when they do and don't apply. That causes the least amount of confusion and the greatest ease in integration to a character's AC. At the highest level, it also frees up a magic item slot for the dedicated RAG (he won't need an amulet of natural armor), so he can dedicate that to something else (most likely an amulet of health, of course...)
the biggest problem i have with this is that it favours min/maxers. when planning your character concept, you can basically say goodbye to a dex higher than 13, Int or cha. then, max out Wis, Str and Con, and wait to hit level 8. not to say that level 8 is an easy feat, but its a signifigate power boost all at once; and barbs would esp. flourish under this system, esp with medium armour and 10 levels in this class. (again, i am not saying to not be the best you can be, but this PrC is [in my mind] intended for straight up fighters, and the barb should take second seat to this)

Luthien Greyspear said:
Oh, and samurai traditionally ONLY used the katana in combat. They used it as a two-handed weapon that was well-balanced enough to use with one hand, which is why it's classified as a 'bastard sword' in 3E. The wakizashi was a matching blade that signified the owner's status as a samurai. Only the samurai were allowed to even HAVE wakizashi/katana sets; anyone else could only have the katana. Usually, the wakizashi wasn't even drawn unless the samurai had to commit seppuku.
i'm more a european history buff -asian history takes a backseat to it- and my ignorance shows :D. All i got to say it i am sure i read it somewhere, but i may be wrong. well, i probably am wrong.

Luthien Greyspear said:
Nope, you forgot the 8 ranks in Craft (armorer). That requires a 5th-level character.
again, another point taken off the top of my head. i figured when typing this out that it seemed just too easy, but oh well.

Luthien Greyspear said:
Um, I'm not following this logic. How does an unnamed bonus serve any class better or worse than a Dodge bonus or a Natural Armor bonus? If you mean that there should just be a scaling AC bonus like the monk, I get it. I don't think I want to use it, but I get it. I still think that the character's preferred armor should reflect his natural tendencies (Int or Wis, with Con for the real meat-shields). Monks ALL learn combat evasion techniques as a science, so they all get the AC bonus. The RAG is more...organic in his approach.
my logic is thus: an unnamed bonus (in leu of you +con/int/wis) promotes more equality for players who dabble into this class. also, unless i am again screwing up on rules, dont you get to keep unnamed bonuses to AC no matter what? this would help give a more "total defense" feel, so that even if you are flat-footed, etc, you may have a nice AC. I also understadn the need for flaour in a PrC many would not touch. i do see many similarities between this and the dwarven defender PrC; but i wouldnt want to basically rape the DD PrC for ideas. yuo obviously haev good ones of your own; i am just trynig to help "work out the bugs" and such.

Luthien Greyspear said:
True, the Samurai armor in OA is not exotic, but perhaps it should be for characters from other cultures.
again, another good point. i have another thread disscussing weapon profs here which discusses toward the end the idea of it the idea of regional weapon (and thus armour) profs. why should some guy from, say France, whos never seen a Arabian be able to use a scimitar as effectively as his longsword? because WotC are right, thats why. (thast what id tell em if asked)

Luthien Greyspear said:
Yeah, that last level is bothering me. I thought of enhancing the character's ability to resist Sunder attempts, perhaps allowing him to shatter weapons on his armor with a held action. Sort of like a counterspell attempt. Hmm...held action, weapons that attempt to sunder the character's equipment take equal damage when the sunder attempt is made. As the RAG has a bonus to his equipment's hardness, and the attacker probably doesn't, that would usually end in the RAG's favor. Axe handles would shatter, blades would snap, and enemies would be rapidly less effective. Sound good?
i like that; make the uses 3+RAG int mod/day, and itll be fine (IMHO) also, another idea would be to give any armour worn the light fortification ability, perhaps called "Fill in the Gaps," or something to that effect. that would be a nice level 7 ability, and woulds suit the idea of a bastion of defense. hey! thats a gives me a good idea for the name of the special ability you made up > Bastion of Defiance.

Luthien Greyspear said:
You're right that I should probably add a little more flavor to the class, so that people understand it a little better. A name would help, too. (In my mind, I keep coming back to Colossus, because of the armor as a second skin angle. That name conjures up something more...offensive rather than defensive. Also really big.)
true, we do need a name for this guy. i entered in "armoured" into thesaurus.com and got back the following: adamantine, armored, brass-bound, durable, everlasting, firm, incorruptible, indestructible, infrangible, invulnerable, lasting, nonbreakable, perdurable, resistant, rugged, shatterproof, solid, tight, tough, toughened, unshakable, unyielding[/]

i like the sounds of the following: Iron-bound Guardian, Adamantine Warrior, Unbreakable One, Battle Ward, etc

**********

YESSSSS!!! 100 posts!!!!!! *pats himself on the back*
 
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Suggested higher level class ability: Something like Fortification, that allows negation of critical hits and sneak attacks.
 

Nyaricus said:
i like that; make the uses 3+RAG int mod/day, and itll be fine (IMHO) also, another idea would be to give any armour worn the light fortification ability, perhaps called "Fill in the Gaps," or something to that effect. that would be a nice level 7 ability, and woulds suit the idea of a bastion of defense.

Kynn said:
Suggested higher level class ability: Something like Fortification, that allows negation of critical hits and sneak attacks.

yeah, like i said . . . . .
 

Nyaricus said:
thanks for the complements and such. i wish some would read that bit when they get all heated up in an argument. i think that'll get added to my sig, infact.

It's a major part of my personal philosophy; glad to see that someone out there gets it.

Nyaricus said:
all i have to say to this . . .i dont think the pope would approve (someone had to say it :P)

Onward Christian Soldiers! :D (Not me, mind you!)

Nyaricus said:
well, seems my math was a bit off. pardon me. it was a bit, uh, early when i wrote that the other night (and i seem to be approaching that time as i write this; gotta stop posting at midnight on the boards). disregarding magical enhancements, you still get a pretty good ac, but i wont bother disputing this particular point any further. i dont feel liek blowing a gasget tongiht.

No worries. I actually took my time getting around to this response because of late night blurriness. I've been there, my friend.

Nyaricus said:
i was refering to initial character concept; not gandalf suddenly being like "gimme some fullplate a a shield, i wanna get right in the middle."

I know, I was just being a bit of a smart-a$$. Sorry if it got on your nerves; that wasn't my intention.

Although the thought of a wizard doing that is kind of funny...

Nyaricus said:
the biggest problem i have with this is that it favours min/maxers. when planning your character concept, you can basically say goodbye to a dex higher than 13, Int or cha. then, max out Wis, Str and Con, and wait to hit level 8. not to say that level 8 is an easy feat, but its a signifigate power boost all at once; and barbs would esp. flourish under this system, esp with medium armour and 10 levels in this class. (again, i am not saying to not be the best you can be, but this PrC is [in my mind] intended for straight up fighters, and the barb should take second seat to this)

Okay, here's where we apparently differ the most. In my POV, a min-maxer is someone who ignores a significant majority of his stats to make one (or maybe two) of his stats way more effective than any other characters. Dodge-kings (Dex builds), spell-killers (Int/Save DC builds), and power-attackers (Str builds) all say min-max to me. Someone who has to work on at least half of his stats (Str/Wis/Con) to truly overexploit a class is actually kind of balanced. How many fighters really work on Wis? None of their class skills, and no RAW feats that are on the fighter list (that I can remember), require Wis for maximum effectiveness.

Also, barbarians would not flourish too well, as they lose some of their class abilities in Heavy armor, which is where the best bonuses in this class are found. They would do okay to take 5 levels and stopping, assuming they have a decent Wisdom, but that cuts into their true utility, which is rage.

Nyaricus said:
i'm more a european history buff -asian history takes a backseat to it- and my ignorance shows :D. All i got to say it i am sure i read it somewhere, but i may be wrong. well, i probably am wrong.

Ah, that's ok. There's lots of semi-researched fiction out there that assumes that because they carried two swords, they USED both of them in combat. Even I thought that until I did some research.

Nyaricus said:
my logic is thus: an unnamed bonus (in leu of you +con/int/wis) promotes more equality for players who dabble into this class. also, unless i am again screwing up on rules, dont you get to keep unnamed bonuses to AC no matter what? this would help give a more "total defense" feel, so that even if you are flat-footed, etc, you may have a nice AC. I also understadn the need for flaour in a PrC many would not touch. i do see many similarities between this and the dwarven defender PrC; but i wouldnt want to basically rape the DD PrC for ideas. yuo obviously haev good ones of your own; i am just trynig to help "work out the bugs" and such.

That's true, you do get to keep unnamed bonuses because they automatically stack with any other bonus. Monks only lose this bonus when they are immobile. I feel that monks get this because they are slightly crippled (sprained?) in the arena of AC. They can't wear armor, which is the primary source of AC for all characters. This character is stacking extra bonuses on top of existing armor, so I want to make it a little less broken. By making it a Dodge and Natural armor bonus, I provide ways to bypass it. Dodge is defeatable by high Initiative (in the first round) and by several types of spells and special attacks. Natural armor is defeatable by touch attacks. Since all Dodge bonuses stack with each other (and other bonuses), it provides the same effect as an 'unnamed bonus'...so long as the character is capable of acting or reacting.

Nyaricus said:
again, another good point. i have another thread disscussing weapon profs here which discusses toward the end the idea of it the idea of regional weapon (and thus armour) profs. why should some guy from, say France, whos never seen a Arabian be able to use a scimitar as effectively as his longsword? because WotC are right, thats why. (thast what id tell em if asked)

I plan to use cultural variance in my next campaign, to address just that issue.

Nyaricus said:
i like that; make the uses 3+RAG int mod/day, and itll be fine (IMHO) also, another idea would be to give any armour worn the light fortification ability, perhaps called "Fill in the Gaps," or something to that effect. that would be a nice level 7 ability, and woulds suit the idea of a bastion of defense. hey! thats a gives me a good idea for the name of the special ability you made up > Bastion of Defiance.

Good name, I think I'll use it. Since you have to wait for a Sunder attempt to be made, I'd rather just let it be an unlimited attempt ability. I might, however, require that all of the damage done by the attacker's weapon be applied to the character's armor or shield, as he is using his armor/shield expertise to turn the attack back on the attacker. Good/bad idea?

Also, the idea of getting light fortification for free is kind of cool. Not overpowered, not unbeatable, but certainly a nasty suprise for rogues! I think I'll use that for the level 7 ability, instead of reduced Armor Check penalties. Do you think I could reasonably move the ACP reduction to first level, or should I just drop it altogether?

Nyaricus said:
true, we do need a name for this guy. i entered in "armoured" into thesaurus.com and got back the following: adamantine, armored, brass-bound, durable, everlasting, firm, incorruptible, indestructible, infrangible, invulnerable, lasting, nonbreakable, perdurable, resistant, rugged, shatterproof, solid, tight, tough, toughened, unshakable, unyielding

i like the sounds of the following: Iron-bound Guardian, Adamantine Warrior, Unbreakable One, Battle Ward, etc

Adamantine Warden is kind of cool. Wardens are protectors in most cultures, and this class IS all about defense...

Nyaricus said:
YESSSSS!!! 100 posts!!!!!! *pats himself on the back*

Yeah, I'm working towards that magic plateau myself. Congrats!
 


Luthien Greyspear said:
It's a major part of my personal philosophy; glad to see that someone out there gets it.
yeah; some people either say without thinking or think without saying. The key to life is finding the balance > Say what you must, when you must or keeping ones thoughts to ones self.

Luthien Greyspear said:
Onward Christian Soldiers! :D (Not me, mind you!)
heh heh > lemme guess your religion . . .hmm . . .scientology??

Luthien Greyspear said:
No worries. I actually took my time getting around to this response because of late night blurriness. I've been there, my friend.
yeah, i am kinda always all over the place; work, school and friends to do wonders to ones sense of time (and status in it) :P

Luthien Greyspear said:
I know, I was just being a bit of a smart-a$$. Sorry if it got on your nerves; that wasn't my intention.

Although the thought of a wizard doing that is kind of funny...
no problem; no nerves were got on.

Luthien Greyspear said:
Okay, here's where we apparently differ the most. In my POV, a min-maxer is someone who ignores a significant majority of his stats to make one (or maybe two) of his stats way more effective than any other characters. Dodge-kings (Dex builds), spell-killers (Int/Save DC builds), and power-attackers (Str builds) all say min-max to me. Someone who has to work on at least half of his stats (Str/Wis/Con) to truly overexploit a class is actually kind of balanced. How many fighters really work on Wis? None of their class skills, and no RAW feats that are on the fighter list (that I can remember), require Wis for maximum effectiveness.


Luthien Greyspear said:
Ah, that's ok. There's lots of semi-researched fiction out there that assumes that because they carried two swords, they USED both of them in combat. Even I thought that until I did some research.
actually, i knew that, just forgot; mostly, i was referring to the use of bows as samurai weapons, but you've made your point, and i get what you mean.

Luthien Greyspear said:
That's true, you do get to keep unnamed bonuses because they automatically stack with any other bonus. Monks only lose this bonus when they are immobile. I feel that monks get this because they are slightly crippled (sprained?) in the arena of AC. They can't wear armor, which is the primary source of AC for all characters. This character is stacking extra bonuses on top of existing armor, so I want to make it a little less broken. By making it a Dodge and Natural armor bonus, I provide ways to bypass it. Dodge is defeatable by high Initiative (in the first round) and by several types of spells and special attacks. Natural armor is defeatable by touch attacks. Since all Dodge bonuses stack with each other (and other bonuses), it provides the same effect as an 'unnamed bonus'...so long as the character is capable of acting or reacting.
okay, perhaps the last line of thought in here (i am feeling it is almost getting more and more futile to argue this but perhaps this will finally change your mind . . .) Also, your bonuses are useful only when in armour; the unnamed bonus would be in effect all the time, and would be balanced no matter what the characters stats look like. Again, i feel clerics would be too inclined to take levels in this class just for that boon (at the expense of spells, of course).
I was thinking about a rebuttle (i know that isnt spelt right . . .) for this Int/Wis/Con bit, and it finally came to me. the reason i wouldnt use this is because, simply, you are going against the description of this class > you are tryign to get guys who use heavy armours to grab this class, and yet at level two you are letting duelist types and such grab a nifty class ability. i say, let the dexterous PrCs stick with the dexterous PrC abilites, and you should focus on the heavy armour PrC class abilities.

Luthien Greyspear said:
I plan to use cultural variance in my next campaign, to address just that issue.
wanna add what you are planning to my weapon group prof thread?? http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?p=2591830#post2591830 is the link. Much appreciated

Luthien Greyspear said:
Good name, I think I'll use it. Since you have to wait for a Sunder attempt to be made, I'd rather just let it be an unlimited attempt ability. I might, however, require that all of the damage done by the attacker's weapon be applied to the character's armor or shield, as he is using his armor/shield expertise to turn the attack back on the attacker. Good/bad idea?
actually, i say go for half damage, and up this ability a bit. After all, you gotta wait 10 levels to get soemthing that only works on a sunder attempt, assuming the attacker doesnt have the "improved Sunder" feat. i say, let this bastion of defense ability negate the negated attack of oppertunity > Meaning a Sunder attempt still provokes an attack of Oppertunity, no matter if the attacker has the Improved Sunder feat or not.
It may be worthwhile to note that i run Campaigns that feature Armour, Shield and Weapon deterioration. To simplify rules, when you are being attacked, and the attacker misses, you roll a d20, and consult a Strike Table to see what the attack hit; then, you minus your items Hardness off the damage, adn all the rest of the damage left over goes to the items hitpoints. (for example, an orc swings at you with a greataxe and misses. you roll a d20, and refer to your melee strike chart to see what he hit. he got your chainmail armour (which in this system has Hardness/HP of 10/80) for a total of 13 damage. so, 13-10 = 3, so the orc did 3 damage to your chainmail, which now has 77 HP. Everytime your equipment goes down by 25% of its HP, it degrades (it weapons have -1 to hit/damage, etc) More details can be found in From Stone To Steel (both a book and a buyable PDF). So, for your Bastion of Defense ability, i'd rule that all damage to armour is halved, in addition to the other abilities.

Luthien Greyspear said:
Also, the idea of getting light fortification for free is kind of cool. Not overpowered, not unbeatable, but certainly a nasty suprise for rogues! I think I'll use that for the level 7 ability, instead of reduced Armor Check penalties. Do you think I could reasonably move the ACP reduction to first level, or should I just drop it altogether?
Your Second Skim is fine as it, and doesnt make anything too overpowered

Luthien Greyspear said:
Adamantine Warden is kind of cool. Wardens are protectors in most cultures, and this class IS all about defense...
Adamantine Warrior or Warden? your original (edited) entry uses both>check it over and edit it. Also, with all our refernces to RAG, id add a NOTE (ie RAG refers to the proto-Adamantine Warden class, which was nick-named Really Armoured Guy, so please keep that in mind in reading subsequent Replies, etc) to the end letting people know what that is, otherwise the "WTF??"

Luthien Greyspear said:
Yeah, I'm working towards that magic plateau myself. Congrats!
haha, actually, its kinda like a birthday. you want to get there s bad, and when you do, its like "meh" fun when i got there though :D

anyways, we shal see what further debates/ideas your response brings . . . :)
 

Nyaricus said:
heh heh > lemme guess your religion . . .hmm . . .scientology??

Nope, Pagan lapsed from sorta Catholic. I am, however, one helluva armchair theologian.

Nyaricus said:
okay, perhaps the last line of thought in here (i am feeling it is almost getting more and more futile to argue this but perhaps this will finally change your mind . . .) Also, your bonuses are useful only when in armour; the unnamed bonus would be in effect all the time, and would be balanced no matter what the characters stats look like. Again, i feel clerics would be too inclined to take levels in this class just for that boon (at the expense of spells, of course).
I was thinking about a rebuttle (i know that isnt spelt right . . .) for this Int/Wis/Con bit, and it finally came to me. the reason i wouldnt use this is because, simply, you are going against the description of this class > you are tryign to get guys who use heavy armours to grab this class, and yet at level two you are letting duelist types and such grab a nifty class ability. i say, let the dexterous PrCs stick with the dexterous PrC abilites, and you should focus on the heavy armour PrC class abilities.

...I never even saw that. You're right, at least about my focus for the class. I got so wrapped up in the fact that armor escalates naturally in the game (light/medium/heavy) that I forgot who would be taking the class and going for the bonuses.

Howzabout this as a fix: Instead of the current Armor Mastery progression, the player can choose one type of armor in which they are proficient. They receive a dodge bonus to their armor class equal to their Wisdom bonus when wearing that armor. They get this ability every three levels after 2nd, and many of the other abilities of the class are tied to their Armor Mastery abilities.

I still want to keep the Wisdom bonus, but I'm willing to make that the ONLY stat used for the bonus. I will make a new 8th level ability where the character has become so bonded to his Mastered Armor that he receives a natural armor bonus when wearing it equal to the lower of his Con bonus or the armor's base armor bonus. I'll make it a Supernatural ability, rather than Exceptional.

Nyaricus said:
actually, i say go for half damage, and up this ability a bit. After all, you gotta wait 10 levels to get soemthing that only works on a sunder attempt, assuming the attacker doesnt have the "improved Sunder" feat. i say, let this bastion of defense ability negate the negated attack of oppertunity > Meaning a Sunder attempt still provokes an attack of Oppertunity, no matter if the attacker has the Improved Sunder feat or not.

I was also thinking about expanding this ability to allow the Adamantine Warden to ACTIVELY shatter weapons on his armor. Limited (as suggested) to 3+Wis (or Int, or something) time per day, the AW can make a Sunder attempt as a reaction to a melee attack. He rolls the same damage as the weapon used against him, with his Armor Bonus (including enhancements) as a bonus to the damage. Sound more like a 10th level ability?

Nyaricus said:
Your Second Skim is fine as it, and doesnt make anything too overpowered

Yeah, I thought that an immediate bonus to some skills would be better at first level. It's only one point to a handful of skills, after all.

Nyaricus said:
Adamantine Warrior or Warden? your original (edited) entry uses both>check it over and edit it. Also, with all our refernces to RAG, id add a NOTE (ie RAG refers to the proto-Adamantine Warden class, which was nick-named Really Armoured Guy, so please keep that in mind in reading subsequent Replies, etc) to the end letting people know what that is, otherwise the "WTF??"

Warden. I cut and paste the name into the class abilities, but forgot when I was writing the flavor. I'm gonna fix that.

Thanks again for the suggestions and pointing out my concept mistake.
 
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Luthien Greyspear said:
Nope, Pagan lapsed from sorta Catholic. I am, however, one helluva armchair theologian.
Atheist for myself. What can i say? alot, since i am a neutral in the games of religions and beliefs and such. but at least you arent a scientologist :P

Luthien Greyspear said:
...I never even saw that. You're right, at least about my focus for the class. I got so wrapped up in the fact that armor escalates naturally in the game (light/medium/heavy) that I forgot who would be taking the class and going for the bonuses.

Howzabout this as a fix: Instead of the current Armor Mastery progression, the player can choose one type of armor in which they are proficient. They receive a dodge bonus to their armor class equal to their Wisdom bonus when wearing that armor. They get this ability every three levels after 2nd, and many of the other abilities of the class are tied to their Armor Mastery abilities.

I still want to keep the Wisdom bonus, but I'm willing to make that the ONLY stat used for the bonus. I will make a new 8th level ability where the character has become so bonded to his Mastered Armor that he receives a natural armor bonus when wearing it equal to the lower of his Con bonus or the armor's base armor bonus. I'll make it a Supernatural ability, rather than Exceptional.

perhaps you could set this up like a Rangers favoured Enemy. at 2nd level, you choose one type of armour to apply you Wis bonus to you AC (as a dodge bonus) up to your class level in AW (ie assume you character has Wis 17 (+3 mod) at 2nd level you get your 1st MOA. you may now apply a +2 Dodge bonus to your AC; at 3rd, the full +3)
then, at 5th level, you gain your second MOA. you may now choose another armour to add your Wis bonus to AC. Also, for either of the two armours, you may add 1/2 you Con mod (max is class level in AW) to ac as a NA bonus. At 8 level, you may do the same.

keep it as exceptional, i dont think it'll do anything to game balance.

Luthien Greyspear said:
I was also thinking about expanding this ability to allow the Adamantine Warden to ACTIVELY shatter weapons on his armor. Limited (as suggested) to 3+Wis (or Int, or something) time per day, the AW can make a Sunder attempt as a reaction to a melee attack. He rolls the same damage as the weapon used against him, with his Armor Bonus (including enhancements) as a bonus to the damage. Sound more like a 10th level ability?
go for Wis, since his other ability is already tied to it. you said you want an intuitive warrior, so it makes sense. It sounds good in theory, but you would need playtesting to check it out in game.

Luthien Greyspear said:
Thanks again for the suggestions and pointing out my concept mistake.
no problem; it really just came to me as i was replying. I thnk no your PrC will do much better for balance, what with only a few minor details to work out :D
 

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