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Arms and Armor Enhancements

Gamling

First Post
Okay, so, im adding in enhancements to DnD armor and equipment so as to improve weaponry (as I play a homebrew edition originally based on 2nd). I aim to keep these upgrades realistic, unlike many features in third and fourth edition. So, my current list is as follows;

WEAPON ENHANCEMENTS
+1 Quality, +2 Quality, +3 Quality, +4 Quality, Kris Blade, Serrated Blade, Tempered Steel, Studded Bludgen, Spiked Bludgen, Folded Steel, Crossbow Bayonet, Razor Edge.

ARMOR ENHANCEMENTS
+1 Quality, +2 Quality, Racial High Quality (as per 2nd class FHB), Tempered Steel, Articulated Joints, Shield/Armor Blades.

If anyone can think of any other realistic or semi-plausible ideas, your replies will be most welcome :D
 

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Celebrim

Legend
Armor and shield blades are not really realistic or plausible.

Or to the extent that they are, they degrade the AC of the armor by decreasing the ability of the armor to deflect blows. In fact, in some cases they produce results that is worse than wearing no armor at all, in that they catch blows that would have missed and redirect the force of that blow like a curved waterslide so that the blow is then turned with much of its force directly into the armor.
 

Celebrim

Legend
WEAPON ENHANCEMENTS
+1 Quality, +2 Quality, +3 Quality, +4 Quality

Ok, sure, though I might be inclined to do something more like +1/+0, +1/+1, +2/+1, +3/+1 (+hit/+damage) to represent 4 levels of quality.

Kris Blade, Serrated Blade...

Neither of these are really enhancements. They are more like drawbacks. What you call a 'Kris Blade' is more generically called Flamberge. Mostly it's decorative. They were believed to have a variety of combat advantages, but mostly they looked cool. In theory they produced a very slightly wider cut on a thrust, but they do so at the cost of increased weight (and hence, lower velocity, and consequently usually lower penetrative capacity since velocity overwhelms mass at some point in the kinetic energy equation) and increased cross sectional area (again, lower penetration). They are however slightly lighter that blades of equivalent width, but mostly the purpose of width in a sword is to provide improved strength and slashing capability - not piercing blows. In theory they disconcerted opponents when they were used to parry, but that was mostly lack of familiarity and probably overstated anyway. In any event, the fad died out fairly quickly. It's expensive to produce weapons of this sort, and they give minor or no advantage.

It's worth noting that during the period that the Kris was an actual battlefield weapon of importance, it was straight bladed. The wavy bladed form only became dominate after people stopped using the Kris for anything other than ceremony and personal defense - precisely the times when being showy and intimidating is more important than being effective. And despite claims that the wound is more effective, actual executioner's Kris remained straight sided.

Mostly the effects of flamberge on combat ability are too fine of resolution to matter in D&D's abstract combat system. If I was going to have them be meaningful in my own system it would be something like, "Get a worse sword for a circumstance bonus on intimidate and perform checks in combat."

The serrated blade is even worse. You aren't going to find many examples of this in real world weapons at all, because serrations are mostly used in sawing. In general, you aren't going to have a lot of opportunities to use a sawing motion on a target in combat. What they in general do is weaken the blade and make it 'bind' to the target when you hit. So what that means is that you stick the weapon in something and then can't pull it out again, which leaves you helpless as your now enraged victim's friend tries to lop your head off. The only exception I can think of is in purpose built 'sword-breakers' where the goal was off-hand defensive parrying and binding of the opposing weapon - in general actually breaking a sword with a sword breaker is possible only if the sword is made of poor quality steel. Otherwise, the force placed on your hand/wrist is generally large enough to break your wrist or wrest the weapon from your grasp before it actually breaks the sword. Again, this is a level of detail usually well below that of D&D's granularity. Unless you track individual maneuvers at the level of parry/riposte/bind/high/low/advance/retreat/etc. all serrations really do is make your weapon worse, and even then any advantage only occurs in certain situations and your weapon is generally less effect outside those sitautions. I'd let serrations assist in off hand parry and weapon/shield binding maneuvers, but otherwise they increase weight, reduce damage, and cause problems on critical hits/lethal blows with getting your weapon back.

Tempered Steel...Folded Steel...Razor Edge

Doesn't this overlap with 'quality'? I mean what does high quality mean if the steel is of less quality? Isn't at least some of the advantaged of tempered steel or folded steel that it holds a better edge and punches more easily through armor?

Studded Bludgen, Spiked Bludgeon

In D&D and in 1e particularly these differences are often generally the difference between weapons. See for example: club, mace, morning star.

Crossbow Bayonet

The bayonet on a rifle was at the end of a long metal rod allowing it to be used like an awkward spear. It generally interfered with the accuracy of the weapon and was only mounted when necessary. Historically, based on an analysis of injuries, it was almost never actually used. The bayonet accounted for no more than about 1% of battlefield injuries. It's use seems to be mostly psychological.

On a crossbow, how you cock this thing now that you've got a knife sticking out where the foot stirrup usually is? Assuming you dismount it, how effective is it going to be? I can find no evidence anyone ever made one of these things, which makes me think it probably wasn't that effective. I suspect people just carried a short sword or hand axe. Still I guess you could make one, though in actual combat I'd expect that the first time you entered melee with it, you'd end up with a splintered bow.
 
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Gamling

First Post
Okay, perhaps realistic wasnt the word to use, how about believable? Or immersive? Basically, something to add a bit of variety to weaponry, so exaggerating the bonuses of a Kris sword or disregarding disadvantages of shield blades in order to make them viable player options is fine by me, if it still immerses my players then I say give them the extra choice. Ive researched all advantages and disadvantages to these enhancements (a word I used for lack of a better, perhaps modification instead?), and while I appreciate the constructive criticism, I really need any additional mods you guys can think of
 

Celebrim

Legend
I really need any additional mods you guys can think of

That's not a standard I can design to.

Earlier you asked for 'realistic and plausible'. By my standards, most of your suggested modifications failed that standard. Now you suggest you want modifications that work under a different standard.

What is that new standard?

Anything that might be plausible in a B rate movie?

Anything that you could draw that would illustrate a weapon function in a game with high suspension of disbelief like say Diable III, World of Warcraft, or Fallout III?

I mean, if you want to toss realism out the window, I can come up with all sorts of things:

a) Multi-blades: Two or more blades parallel to each other and joined to the same hilt, thereby providing twice the cutting surface and causing more grievous wounds.
b) Projectile Blade: Blades are spring loaded in the weapon, so that they can be fired as one-shot projectile weapons.
c) Telescoping handle: Hilt or haft has an extension feature that lets you quickly project the blade out an additional 5' to reach or threaten more distant points.
d) Poison reservoir: Each strike channels poison to the victim from a bladder in the hilt of the weapon.
e) Acid reservoir: As poison reservoir, but spray of acid.
f) Flamethrower: As poison reservoir, but produces gout of flame. Can be refilled by vial of flaming oil.
g) Spring-Loaded Slicer: When blade is plunged into target, powerful springs split the blade into three parts and press the cutting edges outward, doing massive damage.
h) Whip Blade: Blade can be used like a spiked chain as well as normal weapon.
i) Boomerang Blade: Care shaping of the blade allows it to be thrown in a circle and the weapon caught by the wielder on the return journey.
j) Gun sword: There is a firearm embedded in the blade.
k) Nested blades: This weapon is composed of several smaller weapons merged together. It can be disassembled and reassembled by the wielder in different forms. For example, a single long sword might become a matching pair of rapiers, or a smaller sword can be drawn from the larger, inverted and joined by the handles to form a double bladed sword.

And on and on.

But without knowing what you are going for here, I have no way of knowing what genera you are designing too, I have no way of knowing what suggestions are actually welcome.
 

Derren

Hero
Gun swords actually existed (ok, more like gun daggers...). Although, gun clubs (or guns that can be used as clubs) were more common. I have even seen a gun handaxe.

The problem with modifications is that, if a modification existed which improved fighting power my a lot then it would have been so widely used that it would be its own weapon. The only thing left to play with are quality levels, especially as the combat resolution of D&D is too simple to account for minor changes in weapon performances (slightly more penetration for a little less damage) or for utility modifications like (better) water sealed bowstrings and stuff like that.

What you can do is to reduce the different weapon types to the basic ones and make the features of more advanced weapons a modification.
A halberd is a spear with the axe head and hook modification, etc.
 
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