Art for A Magical Society: Ecology and Culture

[andrew]

I rarely buy d20 products. I only want to shell out my cash for something that really stands out. Keep that in mind when you consider my answers.

1. I prefer a book with a consistent feel and approach. Working with one artist seems to be a good way to achieve this.

2. I prefer color. Always. However, I also enjoy quality BW illustrations. For the kind of book you're talking about, 'sketchbook' style illustrations would seem to fit nicely and don't require any extra color.

3. I always enjoy a good full page illustration. The only wasted space is one that doesn't capture my interest.

4. If the illustration has little connection with the subject of the book, I lose interest. Problems with layout? You mean problems with the graphic designer. That said, I don't demand a 1:1 correlation.

Just because you discuss the latest options in picks for mining doesn't mean a need a chart with 8 similar picks showing me the 'differences' between each one. I'd rather have an illustration of a mine cave-in, with people running for help (or their lives!) and bits of the equipment which were detailed in the mining section of the text scattered about or still in use. A picture of a miner is just about useless to me. Give me something to help me tell the story I want to tell.

 

[UrathDM]

1. Would you like to see one artist showcased, or multiple artists?

Multiple artists can help distinguish cultures and showcase how the cultures' styles are different. It *is* important that any corresponding types of art (like panels of typical males and females) be similar enough that the reader can compare them and see differences.

2. 144-page softcover B&W for $25 or color for $30? or a 144-page softcover B&W for 25$ or hardback B&W for 32$?

Well-done color is worth the added money, imho.

3. Would you like to see a few full-page illustrations or would you dislike the "waste of space"?

Full-page illustrations are good, provided that they illustrate the points made in the text. Full page illustrations for their own sake are distracting.

4. I'd like every piece of art to show an idea from the book in practice, wether or not its two people arguing around a fire near the section about cultural types of dispute resolution or simply showing a miner when talking about mines. Do ya'll think artwork is "better" when used in such mannor? (in my experience its harder to layout, that's why i'm asking)

This type of use is necessary. Illustrations sprinkled through the work just to break up the blocks of text are annoying; I would rather just see blank space and spend a little less on the book, in that case.

I also agree with Coreyartus about a couple of things. The recent Lord of the Rings movies are tremendous experiences, in no small part due to the use of color and texture. As the art director said in a couple of specials about the making of the movies, "culture is built up from details". That is a very important point, and one that good color art can make much more effectively than the written word. If the Lord of the Rings books have a fault, it is that Tolkien went into exhaustive (some would say excessive) detail of the appearances of things; this is something good art can do for you.

That being said, a lot of the effectiveness of the art has less to do with the artist's style, and more to do with how well the art is worked into the product.

 

[silburnl]

Brief outline of the book before art questions: MS:EC is about ecologies and cultures in the magical society line. This means that we're talking into account what effect magic could have on world creation, biomes/habitats, lifeforms, and cultures. It has three main sections: 1 about planet building, 2 about ecologies/biomes, and 3 about culture.

Wow. A kind of D20 "Guns, Germs & Steel". I'm sufficiently intrigued that I've checked out your other stuff and will be hitting the stores this weekend in search of MS:WE.

1. Would you like to see one artist showcased, or multiple artists?

One artist is nice, but there are problems with fitting styles to the message that the art is trying to convey and overloading your artist. A small team of artists organised by theme (geography, people, architecture etc) is probably more practical.

2. 144-page softcover B&W for $25 or color for $30? or a 144-page softcover B&W for 25$ or hardback B&W for 32$?

I'm assuming your fourth choice is hardback colour? Personally I'd prefer a well bound softcover to an inappropriate hardcover - see some of the recent Atlas books for an example of poor h/cover choice. I understand what John Nephews is trying to achieve by going h/cover, but the low page count of some of those books means the h/cover format overwhelmes the book, also I didn't think their early h/covers were very well bound.

Going for colour interior would be great if you have art and layout to make use of it effectively, otherwise I'd prefer clean and efficient B&W.

3. Would you like to see a few full-page illustrations or would you dislike the "waste of space"?

Only if they speak to and off the text. Half a dozen full page plates 'just because' would tick me off.

4. I'd like every piece of art to show an idea from the book in practice, wether or not its two people arguing around a fire near the section about cultural types of dispute resolution or simply showing a miner when talking about mines. Do ya'll think artwork is "better" when used in such mannor? (in my experience its harder to layout, that's why i'm asking)

Absolutely yes. See my answer to 3. Art in a game book should support and extend the text IMO. Part of its job is to break the layout up and stop the text overwhelming the reader of course, but it shouldn't be there just to occupy space. Returning to Atlas products - Dynasties & Demagogues has a good selection of commissioned pen & ink plus judicious use of public domain engravings and I think a good balance is struck between text and image.

Regards
Luke
--
# include witty_sig.h

 

[Buttercup]

1. Would you like to see one artist showcased, or multiple artists?

Either way works, though if you can find an artist whose work matches the feel you're trying to evoke, then I'd go with a single artist throughout.

2. 144-page softcover B&W for $25 or color for $30? or a 144-page softcover B&W for 25$ or hardback B&W for 32$?

Personally, I prefer hardbacks. But I suspect pricepoint will be very important to how many copies you sell. So probably the b&w softcover would be your best choice. I know I'll buy it, even if the cover is an old grocery bag.

3. Would you like to see a few full-page illustrations or would you dislike the "waste of space"?

I think partial pages are better.

4. I'd like every piece of art to show an idea from the book in practice, wether or not its two people arguing around a fire near the section about cultural types of dispute resolution or simply showing a miner when talking about mines. Do ya'll think artwork is "better" when used in such mannor? (in my experience its harder to layout, that's why i'm asking)

I think it's really important to have the artwork actually tie closely into the text. It's little things like that the lift a product from good or very good to great.

I am soooo looking forward to this book. You fine folks have set the bar pretty high.

 

[jgbrowning]

Re: Re: Art for A Magical Society: Ecology and Culture

Wow. A kind of D20 "Guns, Germs & Steel". I'm sufficiently intrigued that I've checked out your other stuff and will be hitting the stores this weekend in search of MS:WE.

You won't find it. Yet. We've just come to an agreement with Impressions marketing, so MMS:WE available to distributors by late August. This means the book should be hitting shelves by September. And if your FLGS doesn't have it, they'll easily be able to order it. If you don't want to wait, you can order from us directly www.exp.citymax.com or through www.rpgmall.com.

"Gun, Germs & Steel" is a great book.

Personally, I prefer hardbacks. But I suspect pricepoint will be very important to how many copies you sell. So probably the b&w softcover would be your best choice. I know I'll buy it, even if the cover is an old grocery bag.

Would you prefer "Piggly Wiggly" or "Whole Foods" bag covers?

Originally posted by Buttercup I am soooo looking forward to this book. You fine folks have set the bar pretty high.

I hope we don't have a sophmore slump with this one. We're actually trying harder to try and avoid such a thing, but the subject matter is very different than normally addressed in gaming, so *cross fingers*. But hey, taking risks with subject matter is one of the purposes of the OGL.

joe b.

 

[widderslainte]

Loved MMS:WE and waiting anxiously for your next. In most books, I could care less about art. Poorly done colour art is worse than poorly done b/w art. Save the space for more text! Make it hardcover, please!

 

[pogre]

Softback with b/w illustrations on partial pages.

 

[ForceUser]

1. Would you like to see one artist showcased, or multiple artists?

One or two artists at most. If you can afford it, Mark Zug and Todd Lockwood please.

2. 144-page softcover B&W for $25 or color for $30? or a 144-page softcover B&W for 25$ or hardback B&W for 32$?

144-page softcover B&W.

3. Would you like to see a few full-page illustrations or would you dislike the "waste of space"?

I don't prefer full-page artwork in RPG books. Half-page at most.

4. I'd like every piece of art to show an idea from the book in practice, wether or not its two people arguing around a fire near the section about cultural types of dispute resolution or simply showing a miner when talking about mines. Do ya'll think artwork is "better" when used in such mannor? (in my experience its harder to layout, that's why i'm asking)

I do like art that directly illustrates what's being discussed on the same page, and art that provides examples of behavior and culture is a plus.

Another MMS book! Yes!

 

[MUKid]

1. Would you like to see one artist showcased, or multiple artists?
2. 144-page softcover B&W for $25 or color for $30? or a 144-page softcover B&W for 25$ or hardback B&W for 32$?
3. Would you like to see a few full-page illustrations or would you dislike the "waste of space"?
4. I'd like every piece of art to show an idea from the book in practice, wether or not its two people arguing around a fire near the section about cultural types of dispute resolution or simply showing a miner when talking about mines. Do ya'll think artwork is "better" when used in such mannor? (in my experience its harder to layout, that's why i'm asking)

First, I think art is important to breaking the pages up. There's something psychological about reading an entire book, two columns, small print, no art. Try reading a textbook sometime with no figures vs. one with and you know what I mean.

Second, I love MMS and I am thrilled that I bought it. I've got a couple of friends who didn't buy it there and are eagerly looking forward to it in print. Great book.

Now - your questions!

1. I like multiple artists. One artist would be cool if you can find one that doesn't suck and can do all the illustrations for you without costing you a mint. From what I understand, this is pretty tough.

2. $20 is my price point for something that I'll buy on impulse without too much thought. For more than that, I have to read a review or something. I probably would not buy a small press non-critical $30 book unless it got stellar reviews, color or no. I'm not saying your book won't get stellar reviews, but at $20-$25 I'd probably buy it even with less than perfect scores, ya know? So to answer your question, I'd buy the color book for $30 if it got perfect reviews, but I'd probably by the B&W one for $25 if it didn't.

3. I don't like full-page art, except for the color paintings that were in the 2nd edition AD&D PH. Now *those* were awesome pictures, and worth paying extra for!

4. I don't think that every piece of art must correlate to something in the text, but I do agree that continuity between text and art is important.

Hope this helps,
Jay

 

[thundershot]

Hardback

Color

Partial Page Pics


*has $40 ready, even though the above is not an option*

At the very least, I'd like a hardback, though...



Chris