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<blockquote data-quote="Ruin Explorer" data-source="post: 6303697" data-attributes="member: 18">Not to be disagreeable, but if you follow Kamikaze's logic, he would expect almost everyone to disagree with him - see the &quot;air we breathe&quot; bit - what he's saying is this stuff is so low-level and prevalent that most people simply cannot notice it, and will of course deny that it is there. Hopefully that makes sense even if one disagrees. If most people agreed with him, he'd be wrong in the &quot;air we breathe&quot; point! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile&nbsp; &nbsp; :)"&nbsp; data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />As noted, I personally think it's very mild sexism, because it fails the Hawkeye test, and it's not actually offensive, just boring (I personally think the light thing is not even subconscious sexism, as I'm sure a male character would have had lighting in the same place, but I understand the argument). It is a lot better as a situation than say, the 4E covers, as noted. So right direction, getting there!Rather disagree on Occam's razor though, solely because I am an artist (training-wise), went to art school, and so on, and at art school, artists absolutely ran the gamut in terms of ability to understand their own motivations and biases, from biting self-analysis to complete ignorance and even aggressive denial of really obvious stuff (particularly sexual/phallic imagery - sometimes a cigar is just a cigar, but with some of these students, particularly male ones, Freud would have had a field day!). My personal experience would thus lead me to believe artists are often not aware of what they're doing in their own work. Reading interviews/blogs from fantasy artists suggests they tend towards the &quot;less aware&quot; end of the scale, on average (imo).EDIT - One major anti-sexist plus of the piece - the female character is active and aggressive (up in the giant's face, literally!) and the male character is more passive (and not seeming to &quot;guard&quot; her), in a reversal of standard tropes.For my money that outweighs the Hawkeye stuff, and overall as noted the whole thing is strongly progressive compared to a lot of older art (most, perhaps).</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Ruin Explorer, post: 6303697, member: 18"] Not to be disagreeable, but if you follow Kamikaze's logic, he would [I]expect[/I] almost everyone to disagree with him - see the "air we breathe" bit - what he's saying is this stuff is so low-level and prevalent that most people simply cannot notice it, and will of course deny that it is there. Hopefully that makes sense even if one disagrees. If most people agreed with him, he'd be wrong in the "air we breathe" point! :) As noted, I personally think it's very mild sexism, because it fails the Hawkeye test, and it's not actually offensive, just boring (I personally think the light thing is not even subconscious sexism, as I'm sure a male character would have had lighting in the same place, but I understand the argument). It is a lot better as a situation than say, the 4E covers, as noted. So right direction, getting there! Rather disagree on Occam's razor though, solely because I am an artist (training-wise), went to art school, and so on, and at art school, artists absolutely ran the gamut in terms of ability to understand their own motivations and biases, from biting self-analysis to complete ignorance and even aggressive denial of really obvious stuff (particularly sexual/phallic imagery - sometimes a cigar is just a cigar, but with some of these students, particularly male ones, Freud would have had a field day!). My personal experience would thus lead me to believe artists are often not aware of what they're doing in their own work. Reading interviews/blogs from fantasy artists suggests they tend towards the "less aware" end of the scale, on average (imo). EDIT - One major anti-sexist plus of the piece - the female character is active and aggressive (up in the giant's face, literally!) and the male character is more passive (and not seeming to "guard" her), in a reversal of standard tropes. For my money that outweighs the Hawkeye stuff, and overall as noted the whole thing is strongly progressive compared to a lot of older art (most, perhaps). [/QUOTE]

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