D&D 1E As a follow up to a very old post of mine I've realized that the reason that some adventures will challenge a 5th level party but not A 6th level 1

[JMISBEST]

As a follow up to a very old post about whether or not a party has to level up as soon as possible and me asking because a mate of mine was and still is part of a group that didn't want to advance to 6th level because their level would be too high for them to do severs very good adventures I've realized that the reason that some adventures will challenge a 5th level party but not A 6th level party

I realized that reason that the adventures in question would challenge a 5th level party but wouldn't challenge a 6th level party is that 6th level Clerics and 6th level Magic Users get 2 3rd level Spells per day but 5th level Clerics and 5th level Magic Users only get 1 3rd level Spell and somehow being able to cast 2 3rd level spells per day rather then 1 3rd level spell per day is what makes the difference between the adventure being a challenge and it not being a challenge

 

[aco175]

I do not find that going from 5th to 6th level a big deal. The few extra HP and a couple spells is not a deal breaker for any worthwhile DM to handle. Going from 4th to 5th is much larger of a boost in power and may need many more changes to the adventure.

 

[JMISBEST]

Like I said the reason that the adventures in question will challenge 5th level characters but not 6th level characters is that 6th level Clerics and 6th level Magic Users get 2 3rd level Spells per day rather then the 1 3rd level spell per day they get at 5th level

I also said that even though I don't know why being able to cast 2 3rd levels spells per day rather then 1 3rd level spell per day makes such a big difference I do know that it does make a big difference

 

[bloodtide]

One more spell a day for two characters is not that much at all?

If the spellcaster has two utility spells that they can put to go use in the adventure and that the player can use effectively.

And it might mean one more 'easy' combat encounter, If the spellcaster has two combat spells that they can put to go use in the adventure and that the player can use effectively.

Even if the adventure is written so poorly that all the foes in the adventure group together as easy spell targets, the DM does not have to follow that.

The same way that if the adventure is written to say if anyone casts any spell they win D&D forever, the DM does not have to follow that.

Really, this is about play styles. As an Old School DM I can tell you that in a typical game the "jumpy" players will cast all their spells in the first couple of minutes of game play...have very little effect on anything...and then have to play through often an hour or more of their character casting no spells, and not effecting the adventure much.

 

[Ancalagon]

As a follow up to a very old post about whether or not a party has to level up as soon as possible and me asking because a mate of mine was and still is part of a group that didn't want to advance to 6th level because their level would be too high for them to do severs very good adventures I've realized that the reason that some adventures will challenge a 5th level party but not A 6th level party

I realized that reason that the adventures in question would challenge a 5th level party but wouldn't challenge a 6th level party is that 6th level Clerics and 6th level Magic Users get 2 3rd level Spells per day but 5th level Clerics and 5th level Magic Users only get 1 3rd level Spell and somehow being able to cast 2 3rd level spells per day rather then 1 3rd level spell per day is what makes the difference between the adventure being a challenge and it not being a challenge

What edition of D&D are you talking about?

 

[JMISBEST]

What edition of D&D are you talking about?

1st

 

[pukunui]

1st

Since this forum is mostly just for 5e, you might have better luck posting here: D&D Older Editions

 

[JMISBEST]

Since this forum is mostly just for 5e, you might have better luck posting here: D&D Older Editions

Ooop I must have misunderstood what the names of the forums meant. Sorry

 

[Ancalagon]

1st

You may be interested in knowing that level 5 casters in 5e get two 3rd level spell slots.

No bonus slots for high stats in 1e? no bonus slots for specialization?

 

[Voadam]

You may be interested in knowing that level 5 casters in 5e get two 3rd level spell slots.

No bonus slots for high stats in 1e? no bonus slots for specialization?

In 1e clerics get bonus spells for high wisdom, magic-users do not get any bonus spells for high intelligence.

1e only has the illusionist class which does not get more spells than a straight magic user (and limited to 7th level spells). Specialist wizards being a general option and getting bonus spells for their specialty was a 2e development.

 

[Umbran]

Ooop I must have misunderstood what the names of the forums meant. Sorry

No problem. I'll move it for you.

 

[bloodtide]

1st

Well, everything I said apples even more to 1E. The lack of spells per level makes it unlikely a single spell will do all that much more for an adventure.

1E is where the clueless player can 'pew pew' all there spells away in the first five minutes...AND THEN they have to keep playing as a wizard with NO SPELLS for the whole rest of the game. If they are lucky they have a dagger or a staff and can maybe do two points of damage to a foe per encounter. If they are unlucky, they throw rocks.

One more spell won't change anything.

 

[Ancalagon]

all right, I have a better understanding of the premise.

So a typical party has one magic user (one fighter, one cleric, one thief... in my experience with 2e, a 5th party member often was a 2nd fighter). A 3rd level spell is, essentially, a "big problem solver". There is a pile of angry goblin? Fireball. There is an evil glyph warding that door? Dispel magic. There is an impassable chasm? Fly.

A fifth level mage can solve one big problem with a 3rd level spell. A 6th level can solve two. Sure, that helps a lot, but ... surely that one extra problem solved is not THAT determinant!

 

[JMISBEST]

all right, I have a better understanding of the premise.

So a typical party has one magic user (one fighter, one cleric, one thief... in my experience with 2e, a 5th party member often was a 2nd fighter). A 3rd level spell is, essentially, a "big problem solver". There is a pile of angry goblin? Fireball. There is an evil glyph warding that door? Dispel magic. There is an impassable chasm? Fly.

A fifth level mage can solve one big problem with a 3rd level spell. A 6th level can solve two. Sure, that helps a lot, but ... surely that one extra problem solved is not THAT determinant!

I've asked my mate to give me a example of how the ability to cast 2 3rd level spells per day rather then 1 3rd level spell per day will make a big difference

The example my mate e-mailed me is from a adventure his GM made and in it during the confrontation with the villains 2 cronies at 5th level A Magic User could either try to use dispel magic on the charmed Fighter that's the villains bodyguard or try and cast a fireball at the thief that's both loyal to the villain and the villains 2nd in command but at 6th level he or she could try both and that can make a massive difference

 

[bloodtide]

he example my mate e-mailed me is from a adventure

But that is just one encounter.

So this is saying that the group is 'popping' right into the villain encounter with full spells. You could just not do that. Have say 5-10 encounters before the villain one, and at least one medium one. So at least a couple chances for the wizard to use one or both spells.

As long as you don't do the 15 minute day where the group will "camp in the doorway" to the villain encounter, your game will be fine.

 

[JMISBEST]

But that is just one encounter.

So this is saying that the group is 'popping' right into the villain encounter with full spells. You could just not do that. Have say 5-10 encounters before the villain one, and at least one medium one. So at least a couple chances for the wizard to use one or both spells.

As long as you don't do the 15 minute day where the group will "camp in the doorway" to the villain encounter, your game will be fine.

I asked my mate and he said that in the adventure The GM made the villain is both narcissistic enough and arrogant enough to decide to show the world that he really is invincible by allowing the groups Magic User to take the time needed to memorize the days spells whilst the group was literally on his own front doorstep

In case your wondering? yes the villain was both rich enough and narcissistic enough to have a front doorstep the size of a tiny house