Assassin Base Class (rough draft)
- Thread starter doctorbadwolf
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doctorbadwolf
Heretic of The Seventh Circle
Interesting thought. I think the class might be complex enough as is, but maybe just a feature of Tools of The Trade that allows you to hide the body quickly rather than making an extra attack.
Also, I cannibalized some features, combined some, simplified some of the text, and made Tools of The Trade more versatile, since it's so situational. You can hide or intimidate now, in addition to the attack option. All the weird ribbon-like features have been either combined or deleted, I think, as well.
Other than the extra use choices for ToTT, the class has the same number of features as the rogue, right now.
Also, I cannibalized some features, combined some, simplified some of the text, and made Tools of The Trade more versatile, since it's so situational. You can hide or intimidate now, in addition to the attack option. All the weird ribbon-like features have been either combined or deleted, I think, as well.
Other than the extra use choices for ToTT, the class has the same number of features as the rogue, right now.
doctorbadwolf
Heretic of The Seventh Circle
I don't think being in a crowd normally qualifies for stealth, but I'll double check. The other thing is, crowds are normally difficult terrain, because you are in other creature's spaces, and normally I'd say that if a creature has seen you and knows you're a threat, a crowd doesn't actually obscure you much, so it offers no protection. Also, the intent is for the feature to cause the people in the crowd to not notice you, either, which could be clearer. Basically, the assassin should be able to duck around a corner and slip into a crowd unnoticed to escape a situation, or hide until a target puts it's guard back down, to strick again, in addition to using a crowd to sneak up on someone.
I'll definitely review the stealth rules again, and the trait, and made things more clear.
If the stealth rules already allow what it's doing, maybe it'll just give the ability to use deception instead of stealth to hide in a crowd, as an option, and advantage on checks to hide in a crowd, and ignore the difficult terrain aspect of being inside a crowd...
doctorbadwolf
Heretic of The Seventh Circle
so, the phb says you can't hide from any creature that can see you. IMO, that eliminates crowd stealth without the feature, but maybe I'm being too restrictive? I definitely think that the people in the crowd would normally have a chance to notice that you don't belong.
Ezel
First Post
I would argue that a crowd provides at least half cover. Also just go with it with common sense consider how the average DM would rule it, instead of going strictly Rules As Written. A low level urchin rogue is running away after stealing something, guards are following him, then the rogue finds a very populated crowd and just stops running, walking inside the crowd and blends in. As a DM would you not let the player roll for hiding for that? Would the guards automatically just recognise the rogue from any distance without any problem in the middle of there?
In general many of the features of your assassin work like that, they provide a non-bonus that lets the character do something that DMs would have already permitted. "Hide in Plain Sight" style, which is one of the most ridiculous features in 5e.
In general many of the features of your assassin work like that, they provide a non-bonus that lets the character do something that DMs would have already permitted. "Hide in Plain Sight" style, which is one of the most ridiculous features in 5e.
doctorbadwolf
Heretic of The Seventh Circle
I can see where you're coming from. I guess to me, a crowd just doesn't reliably obscure a person enough to hide in, or is at least much harder than normal hiding situations.
But it's also supposed to support blending in in public spaces so that even if the can see you, they don't recognize you/notice you. So, you could stand next to some delinquents, at a market stall, etc, and gain the benefit. I realize that isn't clear in the feature, though.
Also, obviously Waldo is an Assassin. I've known that for years.
But it's also supposed to support blending in in public spaces so that even if the can see you, they don't recognize you/notice you. So, you could stand next to some delinquents, at a market stall, etc, and gain the benefit. I realize that isn't clear in the feature, though.
Also, obviously Waldo is an Assassin. I've known that for years.
Ezel
First Post
It's still such a tiny and specific bonus to not deserve a feature of its own. The most interesting features are long because they specify what they let you do, features that are lengthy because of their need to specify what you can't do with them are just disappointing unless they let you do something extremely out of the ordinary (flying, lifting a mountain, etc)
Casting Disguise Self would pretty much work for exactly the same specific thing that you describe and at level 1. What if you just let them cast that at will? Game of Thrones faceless style.
Casting Disguise Self would pretty much work for exactly the same specific thing that you describe and at level 1. What if you just let them cast that at will? Game of Thrones faceless style.
doctorbadwolf
Heretic of The Seventh Circle
Perhaps I'll add that to the trait, but I just don't agree that the trait is as insignificant a benefit as you say. I do appreciate the feedback and the ideas, though.
Perhaps advantage on stealth and deception checks while hiding amongst a crowd would reach a middle ground. To me, being able to use stealth to blend into an urban environment is a pretty big step past what stealth can normally do in the game, and treating crowds as normal terrain is a big benefit.
Perhaps advantage on stealth and deception checks while hiding amongst a crowd would reach a middle ground. To me, being able to use stealth to blend into an urban environment is a pretty big step past what stealth can normally do in the game, and treating crowds as normal terrain is a big benefit.
slightlyprime
First Post
lethal ability is really really awesome, though might be a bit powerful at some lvls compared to other classes, not sure. seems fun to play though i see it aimed more at a social campaign than dungeon crawl and kill everything though it would work for either i guess.
main qualm i have is it is very similar to the rogue where you gave the mobility feat and multiclassed ranger maybe. so seems fun and some great ideas though at the moment feels too similar to the rogue where sneak attack is replaced with lethal and you have rangers favoured terrain kinda. though many people would like that so great job.
main qualm i have is it is very similar to the rogue where you gave the mobility feat and multiclassed ranger maybe. so seems fun and some great ideas though at the moment feels too similar to the rogue where sneak attack is replaced with lethal and you have rangers favoured terrain kinda. though many people would like that so great job.
doctorbadwolf
Heretic of The Seventh Circle
Yeah, the similarity to the rogue is a product of me literally giving it the same progression as the rogue, because it drastically cut down my work load. I've considered moving things around, but first I want to be sure that all the features are where I want them.
Glad you like it. It was a lot of work, but really fun to do. It's unfortunate that my current 5e character is a monk.
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