At what point do players know they're fighting Minions?

[Ninja-to]

At what point do players know they're fighting Minions?

Is it after they've attacked and taken one down (1 hp)? Do they then know which other minions are on the field?

In my games usually the first one drops and then everyone knows which ones are minions. Is there any official ruling on this?

 

[1of3]

There is no official answer.

I'd point that out more or less derictly. ("Those guys look like they don't really want to fight you.")

Someone on this board even suggested to have the non-minions "delocalized" over the bad guys. If the player hit with a daily it was not a minion. If the player used a very cool and evocative description, it was. Might be an interesting houserule.

 

[Wonderland666]

they can use a minor aktion to make a knowledge check......

 

[Kzach]

I can't find it, but I was sure it was written somewhere in one of the V.1 books that it's the DM's choice. It recommends telling players but leaves it up to the discretion of the DM. Actually, maybe it was in a DDI article, I'm not 100% sure, but I do recall this discussion coming up elsewhere and an 'official' reference being mentioned.

Personally, I don't see why it's a problem that players know. 4e is a very information heavy system and you can't make intelligent tactical decisions without all the information.

I think the real problem comes from DM's not grokking the point of minions. They're not there to be major threats. They're there to be one-shot and to take up PC actions. They are credible threats, but they should never be the focus of an encounter. They are the stormtroopers and players should be able to make an informed choice as to whom they target and why.

 

[babinro]

We play it that the party doesn't truly know until they've attack the target and knocked it down. However, by nature there are often a couple of giveaways. Namely, more monsters on the field than as per normal. The description of minions tends to detail them as standardized armor/weapons.

These two things alone in memory, has never led to a wasted daily on a minion. The party will generally test one attack on the character if they are unsure before going nova on it.

 

[Destil]

I just tell them, as I take find that to be far less of a meta-game issue.

If there's 15 guys on the field it could be minions. Or they could have bitten off more than they can chew... It should be pretty clear to heroic adventurers when they're entirely outclassing someone, even without attacking them (usually, I'm sure at some point I'll find a good hook for an exception).

 

[aco175]

I've always ruled that PC's know which ones are minions, be it poorer weapons, armor, they're the ones using clubs, they look like they would rather run away, etc..

Although a minion giant running down towards you may look like it will still kick your butt. Then again, a bigger meaner giant behind him makes you want to save your bigger powers for him.

 

[DracoSuave]

Well minions generally have a lack of powers.

So when they make their monster knowledge checks, you say 'Okay, that guy trained in the Art of Air's Denial, a martial art based on choking, and those two dudes are trained to be fast, generally waiting until an an enemy closes before slipping aside. These four guys here don't have any special tricks.'

Guess which four are minions?

 

[Hellzon]

I run a PbP, and I give the players enough information that they can handle any attacks (and OA:s) without me cutting in. So my players get to know HP totals (including minion status!), defenses and details of their basic attack.

 

[Dredly]

I don't give my players a lot of info about the enemies they are fighting. What I normally do is use the same mob picture throughout the campaign, so they know when they see a little kobold guy standing there that he is the same as the one they killed last battle.

I just go to the wizards website and use the pics from the minis, then I put em in a spreadsheet, rotate the top one 180 degrees (so the tops of their heads are touching, then print, then cut out and fold into a tent shape i can make as many as I need and its much better then tokens for my players