At what point does a monster become epic?

[swordsmasher]

Flipped throigh the Epic Level handbook and Draconomicon really quick and couldn't find any rule, so i was wondering if the cutoff is just 21hd like character's. please lemme know if i am wrong!!!

 

[Elephant]

Flipped throigh the Epic Level handbook and Draconomicon really quick and couldn't find any rule, so i was wondering if the cutoff is just 21hd like character's. please lemme know if i am wrong!!!

It's definitely not by HD; an Ancient Black Dragon has 31 HD and is CR 19; thus, you can't really call him an "epic" challenge.

The rule of thumb I would go by is have a cutoff by CR 21.

But then, I'm not really sure what you mean by "epic monster". Presents an epic-level challenge to a CR-21+ default party? Has over 20 HD? Would be considered an epic-level character as a PC? All three of these questions have widely different answers.

 

[Shemeska]

What is, or isn't, epic is considerably arbitrary for the most part. *chuckle*

 

[BOZ]

CR 21, technically.

 

[the Jester]

Open! Open, can of worms!!

 

[kigmatzomat]

A monster is an Epic challenge when it has CR21 or greater.

A monster qualifies for Epic feats when it has >20 HD.

A monster is epic when hardened adventurers wince in remembered pain.

 

[jmucchiello]

kigmatzomat is correct. (So is the Jester. )

 

[swordsmasher]

awesome! thanks guys.