At-Will damage scaling too slow?

[Malacoda]

I'm wondering if almost all damage builds simply use Bloodclaw's based on the crazy damage output.

Absolutely. My goliath great weapon fighter uses a Bloodclaw Executioner's Axe and has the motto "All Bloodclaw, All the Time." The rest of the players and the GM often seem a little awed by the damage output of my character.

 

[RickVigorous]

Bloodclaw is probably the damage king, but it's by no means the only option. I've seen Subtle, Reckless, Bloodiron, and Radiant used, and I've seen Vanguard and Thundergod for charging builds. Bloodclaw is really only fantastic for two-handed weapons. A rogue or ranger probably won't get as much out of it (though I had a ranger/fighter/pit fighter using a reckless bastard sword and a bloodclaw bastard sword in a one-shot).

 

[Skywalker]

Damage already scales to an extent.

From levels 1 to 10, PCs don't have their full complement of Encounters, Utilities and Dailies.

From levels 11 to 20, they do. As such, leaving everything else aside, they have more options and will do more damage as they have a full complement of those other powers to supplement at wills.

From leves 21 to 30, PCs still have the same number of Encounters, Utilities and Dailies as the previous tier. As such, an increase in at will damage makes sense.

FWIW I am running paragon tier and I am not noticing a slow down of combat from heroic tier.

 

[Atreides]

My two PC's are a Drow Rogue and an Eladrin Warlord, both currently Level 7. These are LFR characters, so the loot value is rather high, which does skew the numbers.

Here is my expected At Will Damage at Level 11

Drow Brutal Scoundral
Subtle Dagger +2, Frost Dagger +2

Sly Flourish
1d4 + 3d8 + 24
Dex 6
Str 4
Cha 3
Magic 2
Subtle 2
Cold 3 (Dragonshard + Gloves of Ice)
IA 2 (Iron Armbands)
WF 2 (Weapon Focus)

Average damage should be 40 per hit that has sneak attack.
Without Sneak attack damage is noticeably lower at 22.5. The nice bit here is the ability to do the same attack at range for 38/21.5 damage.

He also will use Lasting Frost to add the Vulnerability Cold 5 for
extra damage in subsequent turns.


Eladrin Tactical Warlord w/ Dragonborn Greatweapon Fighter
Longspear +2, Bloodclaw Executioner's Axe +3

Commander's Strike
1d12 + 29 (36 average)
Str 6
Int 7 (+1 Due to Tactician's Armor)
Magic 3
Bclaw 9
IA 2
WF 2

Adaptive Stategem increases damage by 7 more for up to 3 CS per battle.
Tactical Supervision adds +7 to one hit roll for one CS per battle.

At level 16 the combo will basically be complete

Commander's Strike
1d12 + 43
Str 6
Int 7
Magic 3
Bclaw 9
IA 4
WF 2
Ken 4 (Kensai)
Misc 2 (Golden Crown of Battle Command)
PA 6 (Power Attack)

50 Damage per hit on average.

 

[Dan'L]

Eladrin Tactical Warlord w/ Dragonborn Greatweapon Fighter
Longspear +2, Bloodclaw Executioner's Axe +3

You'll have to readjust your damage estimates; the Bloodclaw cannot be triggered outside its wielder's own turn, so it cannot add that extra 9 damage onto a Commander's Strike attack (or OAs, for that matter). Still, it's a respectable amount of damage for a leader to invoke with an at-will.

-Dan'L

 

[Atreides]

Bummer - it not being my weapon I really didn't know exactly how it worked, just that it was on her wish list.

Hmmm - I will certainly let her know, and maybe she'll go for Jagged or Frost or something else instead.

 

[Shin Okada]

Having 3 strikers usually makes the combat faster. But in your particular case, 2 of them are Warlocks, which tend to have lower damage output amongst strikers. And your players are not trying to increase their damage output at expected level. That is the reason why your combats tend to take longer. That is not the problem of the system itself.

Maybe you can drop damage-increasing magic items such as Iron Armbands of Power as non-requested magic treasures.

Or, just use your monsters more reckless and make your players feel that they NEED to drop monsters quicker. Then, your players may start to discuss about the ways to increase their damage output.

And I also can't see how 11th-level game involves that much at will powers. They now have 4 encounter powers, right? In my experience, at that level, most encounters still take somewhere around 5 rounds to finish. Thus, most characters are using one's encounter power almost every turn.

 

[Tai]

Based on our experience the average result of a Brutal weapon with 2d6 is 9 instead of 7 and you get 35 points of damage.

2d6 brutal 1 is effectively the same as 2d5+2, so the average is 8.

 

[Eldorian]

Our party is mid paragon, and we don't seem to terribly slow down when we hit at wills.

Then again, my sorcerer has a +28 to damage on his spells. (stats, subtle dagger, dual implement, weapon focus, two weapon fighting. All my damage upgrades were obvious, at least it seemed to me).

 

[Stalker0]

That is the reason why your combats tend to take longer. That is not the problem of the system itself.

While I'm not saying this is a problem of 4e....if a particularly system doesn't handle well for a legitimate series of builds a party does, then I do consider that a problem with the system.