(Atlas) Love and War - November
- Thread starter JohnNephew
- Start date
JohnNephew
First Post
JoeGKushner said:
"Commerce and Caravans" is the title, actually -- and it was picked long ago. Maybe sometime last year, even? Certainly well before the GAMA Trade Show, when Chris sat down with Michelle and I to hash out some of the ideas about it.
Likewise with the OTHER still-secret book that Keith Baker is writing, which is going to be very cool.
JohnNephew
First Post
Byrons_Ghost said:Man, is all this coming out this year? How far away is Crime & Punishment? I'm far more likely to arrest my PCs than to knight them.
It's been at the printer almost a week. We've been warned to expect a 6-week turnaround, though, as the printer is somewhat overbooked (thanks to a press breakdown that almost kept us from having Last Hero in Scandinavia at Gen Con). We'd been hoping to see it in August, but now it looks like September...
JoeGKushner
Adventurer
Another secret book? This gets more and more interesting...
Another hardcover or ?
While we're at it, what's the status or the old Nyambe magic item book?
Another hardcover or ?
While we're at it, what's the status or the old Nyambe magic item book?
spacecrime.com
First Post
a painfully long post about writing. Beware!
John wrote:
"Commerce and Caravans" is the title, actually -- and it was picked long ago. Maybe sometime last year, even?
That fits my memory. You first told me the idea at the GAMA Trade Show, so you definitely had it picked out in the 1st quarter of 2003. I wouldn't be a bit surprised if you'd been thinking about it in late 2002.
If people are curious, here's the timeline on the project so far as I know it:
4th Q '02 or 1st Q '03: John and Michelle think up the basic concept of the book.
March '03: John and Michelle and my wife and I talk about the book at the GAMA Trade Show. At this point, the project is likely but not definite. A lot depends on how Dynasties sells, and it's impossible to predict what's going to happen there.
Spring '03: I keep a casual eye out for any reading material that might be useful. I read a lot of business books anyway, but I start looking for books about the Silk Road, the South Sea Bubble, and other interesting bits of business history.
May: Dynasties hits the shelves and sells well. A couple of weeks after publication -- this would be early June -- John decides the numbers are good enough to greenlight Commerce. I start working in earnest.
It's worth noting that John commissioned Crime & Punishment and Love & War months before Dynasties was published. If I understand the timetable, then C&P would have been just about done in May and L&W would be nearing done. If Dynasties had been a flop, then John would have been staring at the prospect of two more flops later in the year. This is why publishers need nads of steel.
June and July: I spend most of these two months devouring all the research material I've been piling up. At this point, I'm mostly reading and noting down interesting bits to myself. I also spend some time finishing up other projects to clear the decks for this one.
I'm also trying to sketch out an outline of the book, but that proves to be more difficult than I expected it to be. I know what I want to do, and I've got some rather spiffy ideas about how to do it, but it's not falling together into an obvious progression of ideas.
I start getting a little worried about this, and wail about my plight to my wife (the best first reader in the world) and Michelle (the best editor in the world). They cheerfully tell me I'll do fine and refuse to pity me in any way. Grumbling, I go back to work.
August 1: I start laying down words. If you're curious, I write for between 2 and 6 hours per night, most nights of the week. This isn't as much work as it sounds, because I'm horribly inefficient and goof off a lot. (Right now, for instance.) I still don't have an outline, but the book seems to flow pretty well without it.
Today: I'm about a 7th of the way through this puppy. Still on schedule, but cutting it a little closer than I like. I'm going to have to pick up the pace a bit in the coming weeks.
In late September: I need to be done with the first draft. My wife and I will then spend a week or two rethinking and rewriting before the book is ready for Michelle to see.
The first week of October: the book is due. Michelle will probably give it a quick look to make sure I haven't written "I am a fish" over and over again, but then it goes in her queue to be edited. She's got lots of projects to juggle, so I'll relax for a bit and then start working on something else.
Later in the fall...: Michelle and I start going over the book via email. She'll let me know what the playtesters think of various bits, and then heartlessly lance all my boils of egotism, assumption, and intellectual sloppiness. She'll expose my math errors, tell me how my rules are broken, and force me to take out all my favorite self-indulgent phrasings.
I will curse her name a thousand times as she makes me rewrite anything I cannot defend, and for this I will be eternally grateful and know her to be a true friend. It's a weird relationship.
After the New Year...: (if I understand the process) Art gets done. Scott and Will do magic with the layout and visuals of the book. John strains his eyes proofreading and strains his patience putting up with my badgering about marketing. (After some argument, he will convince me that hiring the Goodyear blimp to broadcast messages over Wall Street is not a good use of marketing dollars.) Distributors will start receiving information like the Love & War notice that kicked off this thread. We get to basically now in the process.
March '04: the GAMA trade show. I'm not sure what's in Atlas's plans, but I plan to buttonhole every retailer I meet and sell them on the new book. (One of my not-so-secret weapons is that I know how to tell them how the book will make money for them. This is what every retailer wants to hear about a new product.)
Sometime in Spring '04: Commerce & Caravans hits the shelves, hopefully riding a rising tide of popularity from Dynasties, Crime & Punishment, and Love & War.
It's a long trip from idea to store shelf -- at least 12-15 months, more likely 15-18 months. There are other publishers who can do this faster, but one of the things I like about Atlas Games is that they take the time they need to do books right. John would rather put out a great book late than a good book early, and while this sometimes drives me up the wall (as a retailer and as a writer) the end results are worth it.
The other thing that amazes me about this whole process is how much patience it requires. So much of John and Michelle's work depends on picking the right people (hopefully the right people), setting a direction for them, and then sitting back and waiting, literally for months, while those people write manuscripts or create art. I couldn't do that -- I'm too much of a control freak.
I wrote all this because I don't think people really understand how much work goes into producing these books, but I do think the quality shows in the final product. I think that's going to be especially true with Crime & Punishment and Love & War.
I'm an okay writer, and Dynasties is a pretty good book. But Keith Baker and David Chart are better writers than I am, and John and Michelle and the rest of the gang learned a lot from our experience doing the first book. I think the C&P and L&W are just going to blow people away with their amazing-ness as a result. I can't wait to get them in the store and start selling them.
John wrote:
"Commerce and Caravans" is the title, actually -- and it was picked long ago. Maybe sometime last year, even?
That fits my memory. You first told me the idea at the GAMA Trade Show, so you definitely had it picked out in the 1st quarter of 2003. I wouldn't be a bit surprised if you'd been thinking about it in late 2002.
If people are curious, here's the timeline on the project so far as I know it:
4th Q '02 or 1st Q '03: John and Michelle think up the basic concept of the book.
March '03: John and Michelle and my wife and I talk about the book at the GAMA Trade Show. At this point, the project is likely but not definite. A lot depends on how Dynasties sells, and it's impossible to predict what's going to happen there.
Spring '03: I keep a casual eye out for any reading material that might be useful. I read a lot of business books anyway, but I start looking for books about the Silk Road, the South Sea Bubble, and other interesting bits of business history.
May: Dynasties hits the shelves and sells well. A couple of weeks after publication -- this would be early June -- John decides the numbers are good enough to greenlight Commerce. I start working in earnest.
It's worth noting that John commissioned Crime & Punishment and Love & War months before Dynasties was published. If I understand the timetable, then C&P would have been just about done in May and L&W would be nearing done. If Dynasties had been a flop, then John would have been staring at the prospect of two more flops later in the year. This is why publishers need nads of steel.
June and July: I spend most of these two months devouring all the research material I've been piling up. At this point, I'm mostly reading and noting down interesting bits to myself. I also spend some time finishing up other projects to clear the decks for this one.
I'm also trying to sketch out an outline of the book, but that proves to be more difficult than I expected it to be. I know what I want to do, and I've got some rather spiffy ideas about how to do it, but it's not falling together into an obvious progression of ideas.
I start getting a little worried about this, and wail about my plight to my wife (the best first reader in the world) and Michelle (the best editor in the world). They cheerfully tell me I'll do fine and refuse to pity me in any way. Grumbling, I go back to work.
August 1: I start laying down words. If you're curious, I write for between 2 and 6 hours per night, most nights of the week. This isn't as much work as it sounds, because I'm horribly inefficient and goof off a lot. (Right now, for instance.) I still don't have an outline, but the book seems to flow pretty well without it.
Today: I'm about a 7th of the way through this puppy. Still on schedule, but cutting it a little closer than I like. I'm going to have to pick up the pace a bit in the coming weeks.
In late September: I need to be done with the first draft. My wife and I will then spend a week or two rethinking and rewriting before the book is ready for Michelle to see.
The first week of October: the book is due. Michelle will probably give it a quick look to make sure I haven't written "I am a fish" over and over again, but then it goes in her queue to be edited. She's got lots of projects to juggle, so I'll relax for a bit and then start working on something else.
Later in the fall...: Michelle and I start going over the book via email. She'll let me know what the playtesters think of various bits, and then heartlessly lance all my boils of egotism, assumption, and intellectual sloppiness. She'll expose my math errors, tell me how my rules are broken, and force me to take out all my favorite self-indulgent phrasings.
I will curse her name a thousand times as she makes me rewrite anything I cannot defend, and for this I will be eternally grateful and know her to be a true friend. It's a weird relationship.
After the New Year...: (if I understand the process) Art gets done. Scott and Will do magic with the layout and visuals of the book. John strains his eyes proofreading and strains his patience putting up with my badgering about marketing. (After some argument, he will convince me that hiring the Goodyear blimp to broadcast messages over Wall Street is not a good use of marketing dollars.) Distributors will start receiving information like the Love & War notice that kicked off this thread. We get to basically now in the process.
March '04: the GAMA trade show. I'm not sure what's in Atlas's plans, but I plan to buttonhole every retailer I meet and sell them on the new book. (One of my not-so-secret weapons is that I know how to tell them how the book will make money for them. This is what every retailer wants to hear about a new product.)
Sometime in Spring '04: Commerce & Caravans hits the shelves, hopefully riding a rising tide of popularity from Dynasties, Crime & Punishment, and Love & War.
It's a long trip from idea to store shelf -- at least 12-15 months, more likely 15-18 months. There are other publishers who can do this faster, but one of the things I like about Atlas Games is that they take the time they need to do books right. John would rather put out a great book late than a good book early, and while this sometimes drives me up the wall (as a retailer and as a writer) the end results are worth it.
The other thing that amazes me about this whole process is how much patience it requires. So much of John and Michelle's work depends on picking the right people (hopefully the right people), setting a direction for them, and then sitting back and waiting, literally for months, while those people write manuscripts or create art. I couldn't do that -- I'm too much of a control freak.
I wrote all this because I don't think people really understand how much work goes into producing these books, but I do think the quality shows in the final product. I think that's going to be especially true with Crime & Punishment and Love & War.
I'm an okay writer, and Dynasties is a pretty good book. But Keith Baker and David Chart are better writers than I am, and John and Michelle and the rest of the gang learned a lot from our experience doing the first book. I think the C&P and L&W are just going to blow people away with their amazing-ness as a result. I can't wait to get them in the store and start selling them.
I too am curious about when Crime and Punishment is due. I looked for it on the website and couldn't find it - but that doesn't mean it isn't there!
Any idea when this will be out?
Keep putting out the great innovative stuff Atlas. it is why you are one of my top 5 publishing favorites - a distinction that makes me consider evey one of yur products. Also, love that Bestiary!
Razuur
Any idea when this will be out?
Keep putting out the great innovative stuff Atlas. it is why you are one of my top 5 publishing favorites - a distinction that makes me consider evey one of yur products. Also, love that Bestiary!
Razuur
Last edited:
spacecrime.com
First Post
You can find the Crime & Punishment page (with nifty cover image!) at:
http://www.atlas-games.com/product_tables/AG3223.html
cheers,
http://www.atlas-games.com/product_tables/AG3223.html
cheers,
Byrons_Ghost
First Post
All this sounds very cool. Thanks for the info.
Actually, I'd like to mention that I've been quite impressed with the entire Penumbra line. I've most recently gotten Unhallowed Halls and Dynasties & Demagogues and enjoyed them both. For some reason the Penumbra books always seem to fit into the sort of campaign that I run- if you count modules than I think I have more Penumbra books than WotC.
Actually, I'd like to mention that I've been quite impressed with the entire Penumbra line. I've most recently gotten Unhallowed Halls and Dynasties & Demagogues and enjoyed them both. For some reason the Penumbra books always seem to fit into the sort of campaign that I run- if you count modules than I think I have more Penumbra books than WotC.
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