Attack from within a Rope Trick area?

[Damon Griffin]

House rules

For those of you describing how you've house ruled this situation: while any input is appreciated, our DM for this particular game prefers to house rule as little as possible, and stick to the core rules 99.9% of the time. So I was soliciting input on the interpretation of the rules as written (else I'd have posted in the House Rules forum instead of here.

It appears the concensus is that firing missile weapons out of a rope trick pocket dimension is legitimate, in that it's not forbidden by the spell description as written, and that total concealment and some degree of cover would apply.

I doubt the dragon* we are soon to face will obligingly place himself underneath us, but perhaps the trick will come in handy elsewhere.

*We're running through the Forge of Fury, and haven't seen any sign of a dragon yet, but we did just discover a notebook full of notes on black dragons, and some troglodytes we questioned afterward seemed to confirm the presence of a dragon somewhere below the Forge. (No help with this, please.)

 

[Stormrunner]

Remember that dragons can generally see invisible.
So from the dragon's POV, there's a 3'x5' shimmery rectangle hanging in mid-air, with arrows coming out of it. What a good target for a breath weapon! Especially since you're all so obligingly packed together on the other side...
And once the window is created, it's not movable. So put it up against a wall or something, otherwise enemies merely need to get on the other side of it to be safe.

 

[werk]

For those of you describing how you've house ruled this situation: while any input is appreciated, our DM for this particular game prefers to house rule as little as possible, and stick to the core rules 99.9% of the time.

See, that's just it though, the rules are a framework which purposely are vague and do not cover every aspect of every situation. Attacking through the window is not mentioned in RAW and therefore house rule material no matter how it is addressed. It is a house rule to allow attacking through, just as it is a house rule to not allow it. As a DM, I do not allow it, and explained how to easily connect that gap in the rules, via discription, so as to remain IMO technically RAW.

 

[Damon Griffin]

Remember that dragons can generally see invisible.

Blindsight(Ex) and Keen Senses(Ex) but not see invisible. Your point about a compact target is well taken, though.

And once the window is created, it's not movable. So put it up against a wall or something, otherwise enemies merely need to get on the other side of it to be safe.

Dunno if my DM will permit that, since the spell description specifies that the whole rope ihangs perpendicular to the floor and that the window is centered on the rope, but it's certainly worth keeping in mind.

 

[LokiDR]

Remember that dragons can generally see invisible.
So from the dragon's POV, there's a 3'x5' shimmery rectangle hanging in mid-air, with arrows coming out of it. What a good target for a breath weapon! Especially since you're all so obligingly packed together on the other side...

Unfortunately for the dragon, that wouldn't work: "Spells cannot be cast across the extradimensional interface, nor can area effects cross it." Then again, the dragon probably has the knowledge(arcana) to recognize the 3x5 hole in the universe as a rope trick and act accordingly. Dragons are supposed to be smart.

 

[LokiDR]

See, that's just it though, the rules are a framework which purposely are vague and do not cover every aspect of every situation. Attacking through the window is not mentioned in RAW and therefore house rule material no matter how it is addressed. It is a house rule to allow attacking through, just as it is a house rule to not allow it. As a DM, I do not allow it, and explained how to easily connect that gap in the rules, via discription, so as to remain IMO technically RAW.

The rules cover what they cover, such as shooting through a 3x5 window. The spell does what the spell does, no more and no less.

Spells cannot be cast across the extradimensional interface, nor can area effects cross it. Those in the extradimensional space can see out of it as if a 3-foot-by- 5-foot window were centered on the rope. The window is present on the Material Plane, but it’s invisible, and even creatures that can see the window can’t see through it.

We have a window that stops spells and area effects. It does not stop people climbing in our out. The window exists on the Material Plane. At least one object can be hauled up into the space, the rope.

I think it is reasonable to treat this spell as it is written: a window. Except as noted, this is hole in the floor. That means matters such as cover or reach are played just as you would play them for a mundane hole in the floor. The spell doesn't do what it doesn't say. The spell doesn't stop these things, and neither would a window. By the RAW, then, I say you can attack through it. To do otherwise is to presume something that is not there, and that is the essence of a house rule.

 

[moritheil]

Blindsight(Ex) and Keen Senses(Ex) but not see invisible. Your point about a compact target is well taken, though.



Dunno if my DM will permit that, since the spell description specifies that the whole rope ihangs perpendicular to the floor and that the window is centered on the rope, but it's certainly worth keeping in mind.

1. Most dragons are arcane spellcasters, anyhow.

2. I don't think I would allow such a thing - it pretty clearly has to be perpendicular to the rope. I do see a tiny bit of wiggle room, though.

 

[Damon Griffin]

Unfortunately for the dragon, that wouldn't work: "Spells cannot be cast across the extradimensional interface, nor can area effects cross it." Then again, the dragon probably has the knowledge(arcana) to recognize the 3x5 hole in the universe as a rope trick and act accordingly. Dragons are supposed to be smart.

This, too, may be open to interpretation. On first reading my take was [only] that area effect spells, even if their area completely encompassed the window, would not affect the pocket dimension beyond. The breath weapon, being corporeal and not a spell effect, would pass through as easily as our arrows.

The spell doesn't explicitly say that, though, it just says area effects won't pass. It'd be up to our DM to decide.