Attacking my PC's at night

[Scud.NZ]

6 PC's, two on watch, four asleep camped around an nice fire (range 10) in open terrain.

6 Monsters have snuck up to range 10, the two on watch are unaware of them. The monsters attack.

How do I run this? My initial thoughts are these:

The monsters have surprise on the first round, so can run in to the camp site without being attacked themselves.

Second round. The two PC's on watch are now aware of the monsters (who are a lot closer!).

If the PC's have initiative advantage over the monsters they will want to wake up the sleeping members of the party. How would you handle this? Perhaps treat each waking as a minor action?

If the monsters have initiative advantage over the PC's, they would attack the watch PC's to prevent them immediately waking the rest of the party. How would you give the PC's a fair go in these circumstances. My first thought is that they could shift, move and wake 1 person. So no problem, other than the lost opportunity to attack.

What if the sleeping PC's are not shaken awake in that second round? Would they awaken automatically on round 3 once the fighting starts? If so, why ever bother to try to wake up your sleeping friends.

I'm a little confused on what's appropriate here. How would you run the start of the encounter, say the first three rounds?

 

[Kambuk]

Page 263 Players Handbook

When you’re asleep, you’re unconscious (see “Conditions,”
page 277). You wake up if you take damage or if
you make a successful Perception check (with a –5 penalty)
to hear sounds of danger. An ally can wake you
up by shaking you (a standard action) or by shouting (a​

free action).

In theory the 1st player to have a go can shout which wakes everyone up.
However what does that mean as far as initative goes?

Does everyone roll initative as normal and delay if they are asleap on their go untill something wakes them and then they get a full go? (assuming a normal round not a surprise round) However you probably can't delaly if you are asleap...

Or do they not roll initative untill they are woken and then roll and if they roll higher than the current initative they go next?

Also if you are asleap you get a passive perception check at -5 to notice anything (Page 263). Under Preception sounds of battle are DC 0 so everyone will wake up anyway as soon as the "battle" starts.

So if during the surprise round the monsters attack then everyone will get to act as normal on the 1st normal round unless the somehow have a base -6 perception.

Where it gets complicated is if they use their surprise round to just move quietly forwards....

Kambuk

 

[Kordeth]

6 PC's, two on watch, four asleep camped around an nice fire (range 10) in open terrain.

6 Monsters have snuck up to range 10, the two on watch are unaware of them. The monsters attack.

How do I run this? My initial thoughts are these:

The monsters have surprise on the first round, so can run in to the camp site without being attacked themselves.

There would be a surprise round, yes.Don't forget that surprised PCs grant combat advantage and the monsters only get one action.

Second round. The two PC's on watch are now aware of the monsters (who are a lot closer!).

Technically this would be the first round--surprise rounds don't really count, but that's just a nomenclature thing.

If the PC's have initiative advantage over the monsters they will want to wake up the sleeping members of the party. How would you handle this? Perhaps treat each waking as a minor action?

See PHB p. 263, "Sleeping and Waking Up." Waking an ally is a free action if you just shout, or a standard action if you shake them. Sleeping PCs would also get a Perception check at -5 to wake up at the sound of the monsters charging in and attacking.

If the monsters have initiative advantage over the PC's, they would attack the watch PC's to prevent them immediately waking the rest of the party. How would you give the PC's a fair go in these circumstances. My first thought is that they could shift, move and wake 1 person. So no problem, other than the lost opportunity to attack.

Shouting is a free action and automatically wakes allies in earshot--there's not much the monsters can do by RAW. You could allow the monsters to grab the sentries and make a Str + Ref attack to clap a hand over their mouths to quiet the, but otherwise the sentries would have to be taken out in the surprise round to stop the sentries from shouting to wake their allies. Also, again, the sleeping characters get a Perception check at -5 to wake up every round.

What if the sleeping PC's are not shaken awake in that second round? Would they awaken automatically on round 3 once the fighting starts? If so, why ever bother to try to wake up your sleeping friends.

See above. Perception check at -5.

 

[Scud.NZ]

Cheers for the advice. One point still remains a little fuzzy for me.

The sleeping PC's require a Perception Check at -5 to be awoken by the sound of the monsters charging in and attacking.

Roll against what DC? I'm assuming from the PHB perception section that the DC is 0 (Battle) which would effectively mean rolling higher than a 2 or 3 for most PC's.

It seems rather inconsistent to apply the auto-wake rule for shouting at a sleeping ally, when there is a 1 or 2 chance in 10 that the battle itself will not wake you (at least for a level 1 party).

I think I can justify requiring the Perception Check at -5 to be awoken by an allies shout. Shaking an ally would automatically wake them.

Can anyone justify the rule in its RAW form?

One last thing, now I think of it. I can't find any rules limiting what the PC can do on the turn he is woken up. Are there any? How might you handle it otherwise?

 

[Dalzig]

Battle isn't necessarily the first indication of danger. If the lookouts actually did their job well, they would see the enemies before they attacked. This is the reason for the shout as free action, or shake as a standard action.

The -5 rule is incase no one is on watch and someone might be sneaking up on you or doing something near you. They break a twig, you wake up, and battle starts.

There are no rules to what you can do when you wake up. Obviously, you'll most likely be prone, but other than that, it works like normal. You'll have to find your weapon, pick it up, stand up, and then go attack the enemy.

 

[Inigo Carmine]

The sleeping PC's require a Perception Check at -5 to be awoken by the sound of the monsters charging in and attacking.

Roll against what DC? I'm assuming from the PHB perception section that the DC is 0 (Battle) which would effectively mean rolling higher than a 2 or 3 for most PC's.

I myself wouldn't say there were official "Battle" sounds until either an attack has been made, or enemies were in melee with eachother. Charging into the camp would probably be a stealth check-based DC (at appropriate penalty for their movement rate).[/quote]

It seems rather inconsistent to apply the auto-wake rule for shouting at a sleeping ally, when there is a 1 or 2 chance in 10 that the battle itself will not wake you (at least for a level 1 party).

Not really. I can imagine sleeping through a small scuffle outside my tent, but would probably wake at someone shouting "To Arms, we're under attack!!" at the top of their lungs.

I think the intention of "shout" is louder than the default 0 for battle sounds. In 3rd edition, a "0" listen DC was equated to the level of sound generated from a normal conversation right next to you. so, for a DC 0 "sound of battle", this might cover grunting, heavy breathing and the occasional sound of weapon hitting something hard. If you start bringing in thunder-based spells, breaking down doors etc, the sound of battle would be a much much lower DC.

 

[Quartz]

The sleeping PC's require a Perception Check at -5 to be awoken by the sound of the monsters charging in and attacking.

Roll against what DC? I'm assuming from the PHB perception section that the DC is 0 (Battle) which would effectively mean rolling higher than a 2 or 3 for most PC's.

The initial DC is set by the stealth check of the monsters, surely?