Attacking the Thief-Guild

[Yair]

The PCs got it into their head to assault the local thief's guild. Now I have to come up with their headquarters and their defense plan. I'm looking for advice in planning the guild's hideout.

I've already established that these guys run a gambling operation at a local inn, and their headquarters (or one of them, anyway) is below the place, through a trap-door in the kitchen. They're the weaker of two thief guilds in the city, and the PCs have already taken down lots of their members. (Although they don't really realize this.) [They are the Alleybashers from the Shackled City Adventure Path.]

The PCs are at level 6, but buffed up with house rules so I'm pegging them at CR 7 or so. There are four PCs, plus one NPC, plus two more PCs that may or may not participate - overall, 5 to 7 CR 7 PCs.

[And if any of my players is reading this - stop now, before it will be too late.]

I have designed the basic setup. What I find difficult is how to run the big encounter in Room 3: how to run it and what to put in it that won't overwhelm but will challenge the party. I'll be happy for any advice on this, or for alternative hideouts and scenarios.

Here is my design...

Room 1: Guard Pit [EL 2]
Past an excellent lock and hidden trapdoor, one guard (level 2 rogue) in a recess overlooking the entrance so he'll get to see folks before they see him. The entire room is protected with a mental alarm stone,keyed to the resident wizard (the Alleybashers know the password). Only one other door leads from this pit, and it's clumsy to climb to.

Room 2: Trap Room [EL 5]
A strong metal door is at the entrance; it is trapped (CR 2).
Inside the room is wide, with "parapets" surrounding it. Two guards are always here (CR 2 each), with 4 more possibly coming if the alarm is sounded. They hide behind the parapets, and activate a Large Net Trap (CR 2), then attack with poisoned arrows.

Room 2a: Lounge
Some games, tables, and so on. Two rogues (CR 2) are here, but are accounted for above.

Room 2b: Quarters
A few mattresses for when an alleybasher needs to stay there for some time. Two are here, but are accounted for above.

Room 3: Inner Chambers [EL ]
This is where the big bosses will make their stand. This is where I'm finding things really difficult to create and run.

My thinking is to make a very large chamber, lit by dim lanterns and torches casting many shadows. There are lots of columns, pillars, daises, and curtains in the room. There are also lots of secret traps and doors that can be set off mechanically (but not by accident); each is activated by a move or standard action, not automatically triggered.

The idea is to have the battle be of sneaky rouges hiding in the shadows and activating traps, tumbling to lead the PCs to step on the traps, and attempting to sneak-attack by ganging up on PCs or striking from the shadows. In the meantime, the wizard and/or cleric will attack and confuse with spells.

Some possible devices: Deeper Pit Trap (CR 1), Scything Blade (CR 1), Spiked Pit (CR 2), Ceiling Pendulum (CR 3), Hail of Needles (CR 3), Stone blocks (chandelier) from ceiling (CR 3), Collapsing Column (CR 4), Fusillade of Darts (CR 5), Moving Executioner Statue (CR 5), Poison Wall Spikes (CR 5), Black Tentacles Trap (CR 7). Also three secret doors, two allowing exit to the outside and one into the secret chamber.

This room may also be protected by an extended bane trap (CR 3), and the cleric probably cast a glyph of warding.

The room is occupied by the last stand. Not sure as to their composition. I think a guildmaster is needed, as is a wizard; a cleric of Olidamarra might also be appropriate. The guildmaster would work well as a shadowdanver (CR 10? That's when he gets shadow illusion), a few alleybashers (CR 2 rogues), a wizard (CR 8 illusionist?), and a cleric of Olidamarra (CR 8?). Statting them out will be a small nightmare.

Room 3a, 3b, 3c: Private chambers for the guild leaders. Probably include a glyph, a sepia snake sigil, or a mechanical trap to guard each.

Room 4: Secret Chamber
This is where the treasure not stashed into the leader's rooms is kept. Entrance through a secret locked trapped (whirling poison blades, CR 6) door; perhaps with compacting room trap (CR 6) as well.

The treasure here consists of lots of money, some magic items they thought might be useful some day (they fence/use the rest), and some information.

 

[Asmo]

This sounds like great fun!

Have you played "Mad God´s Key" ( Dragon #114)? It´s a low level adventure and the party is checking out a house of a local guild - a minor one,but I think the layout is interesting and could give you some ideas.

It would be nice of you could post your bosses - from the adventure, of course


Asmo

 

[Numion]

You could include a training area for the thieves - just for flavor. Different quality locks to train picking on, disarming alarms, etc..

 

[jimpaladin]

I like the "room" feeling for the guild. I would just suggest that as far as a challenge go for what you feel is higher. Too often as DM's we want to make it "right", and that usually means it's too easy so we try t obuff up the BBEG while the scene is going on. In this case, if it starts out that you're slapping the pc's around, you can always tone it down. Or conversely, they're thieves. At some point they realise that by keeping their identities secret is more important that all the money in the treasure room. After all, they will be able to get it back

 

[Numion]

I would just suggest that as far as a challenge go for what you feel is higher.

It depends. If the thieves are a good match for veteran adventurers, they'd own the city very quickly.

My players once got fed up with a ring of pickpockets and decided to assault their guild. They were 15-16th level. Surprised the guild by ethereal form and slaughteres the little buggers (halfling guild).

 

[Yair]

Have you played "Mad God´s Key" ( Dragon #114)? It´s a low level adventure and the party is checking out a house of a local guild - a minor one,but I think the layout is interesting and could give you some ideas.

Hmm. The maps are apparently free, here. I might steal a few rooms there, indeed (G13 and some of G19). Thanks.

It would be nice of you could post your bosses - from the adventure, of course

Sure, I'd be happy to.

You could include a training area for the thieves - just for flavor. Different quality locks to train picking on, disarming alarms, etc..

Excellent idea.

I like the "room" feeling for the guild. I would just suggest that as far as a challenge go for what you feel is higher. Too often as DM's we want to make it "right", and that usually means it's too easy so we try t obuff up the BBEG while the scene is going on. In this case, if it starts out that you're slapping the pc's around, you can always tone it down. Or conversely, they're thieves. At some point they realise that by keeping their identities secret is more important that all the money in the treasure room. After all, they will be able to get it back

I have a reputation for TPKs...
I'm hoping I won't throw too much on them.

 

[kobold]

Just my $.02 here.
Unless it's key to the story that they PCs face the guild, by the time they got to room 3 the lair would be empty. A thevies guild should have lots of secret escape routes, and underlings shold slow intruders down enough that the major players can get away. Theives steal- not fight, unless they can't help it.
This will likely tick the players off, but...
Then they remaining guild members can begin to use their real talents. Stealth and subversion, intimidate towns folk to not be helpful tothe PCs. They should know they town/ city like the back of their hands and be able to use it to their advantage. Turn the tables on the PCs and put them on the run. Have the remaining guild slowly tring to pick them off about town, maybe inlist the services of an assassin. But, never a straight up face to face fight if they can help it.

 

[Rhun]

If you get a chance to read the story Ill Met in Lankhmar, where Fafhrd and Grey Mouser assault the city's Thieves' Guild, it might give you some good ideas.

 

[Yair]

Just my $.02 here.
Unless it's key to the story that they PCs face the guild, by the time they got to room 3 the lair would be empty. A thevies guild should have lots of secret escape routes, and underlings shold slow intruders down enough that the major players can get away. Theives steal- not fight, unless they can't help it.
This will likely tick the players off, but...
Then they remaining guild members can begin to use their real talents. Stealth and subversion, intimidate towns folk to not be helpful tothe PCs. They should know they town/ city like the back of their hands and be able to use it to their advantage. Turn the tables on the PCs and put them on the run. Have the remaining guild slowly tring to pick them off about town, maybe inlist the services of an assassin. But, never a straight up face to face fight if they can help it.

Excellent advice. I'll definitely use it - for the next guild. This one's called "Alleybashers" - and that's about as sophisticated as they are. They're more into bullying than into subterfuge.

If they go after the Last Laugh, though, I'll definitely follow your advice. They're more subtle.

If you get a chance to read the story Ill Met in Lankhmar, where Fafhrd and Grey Mouser assault the city's Thieves' Guild, it might give you some good ideas.

As the game is tomorrow, I rather doubt I could get a hold of it, let alone read it... but thanks.

 

[Imp]

As I recall the thieves in Ill Met In Lankhmar do a lot of sneak-attacking via trapdoor, rafters, behind curtains with thrown knives and such.

I am not sure "the weaker of two thieves' guilds in the city" would be eager to split to the four winds and start trying to rally everyone in the city against the adventurers, mainly because this seems like an excellent signal for the stronger guild to go ahead and finish them. I think they'll try to make a deadly trap out of their headquarters somehow... (reads)

... unsophisticated, eh? Okay, a lot of sneak-attacking from prepared positions, luring into some sort of trap that limits the player's mobility in a fairly big room. Like your trap room with the net. Maybe add a grease or web spell. Follow this by the opening of a secret chamber that dispenses a mob of the skankiest low-lifes the town has to offer, buffed as much as the thieves' guild can afford and ready to pound the PCs into next week. Meanwhile the actual thieves close and bar all entrances and fire into the room via arrow slits - your poison arrow archers. When the doors start being opened, the thieves bug out. Maybe if they have access to magic they leave some decoys to try to get the party to fire off some unnecessary spells. They wait until the party is regrouped, resources expended, and heading home with the loot, and then try the final showdown, at the party's home base. (Of course, if there are mages with the thieves, some of their spells will have been expended too, from say buffing the mob of low-lifes; after all they aren't that clever.)