D&D 4E Attempt at Conversion doc to convert 4E edition monsters to D&D Next - on the fly

[jamesmanhattan]

This is my ultra-quick (little work as possible), while running the 4E monsters almost exactly as they are written, and not changing the way 4E works too much, attempt at an on-the-fly conversion to D&D Next. You're going to be mixing 4E effects with D&D Next effects. i.e. Your players could become Weakened, your monsters could become Frightened. This keeps ongoing 5 (save ends) etc.

4E players start with much more HP. So to handle what a level 1 4E player can handle; a D&D Next player has to start at level 3. See level translation chart below.

To translate 4E monster to D&D Next monster.
1. Leave damage for all monsters unchanged.
2. Cut all monster's HP in half. Easy, since you can just use the Bloodied value that is already printed.
3. Divide the 4E Level by 5, rounded normally. You'll use this for a few things. Its like the Proficiency bonus.
4. AC = Level/5+12 (Add+2 for Soldier, -2 for Brutes)
5. Attack bonus = Level/5 +4 (add+2 for Artillery and Soldiers)
6. Saving Throw DC's for monster's powers = Level/5+10
7. The Stats: STR,DEX,CON etc. keep as they are. (The cap is roughly 30 for extremely high level 4E monsters so it should work out).
The problem is you'll have to work out what the bonuses are since 4E adds half-level to all the printed bonuses. You can subtract half-level from the printed bonus.
8. Minion HP should be (4E Level+5) Example: A level 16 Minion will have 21HP

You'll have to decide which of the powers that originally targeted Fort,Ref,Will to change into either targeting AC, or forcing players to make a saving throw. Maybe split them by area effect or single target.

The other weird things are monsters that require Combat Advantage for certain powers to trigger or to deal Sneak Attack. Advantage is a little harder to come by than flanking in 4E was, and it's a little stronger so you want to give it out less. You might want to treat everything that requires Combat Advantage like a D&D Next Rogue, they get to trigger the power that requires Advantage if an enemy is adjacent to the target, but don't get any bonuses to the attack roll.

Marking, you might want to keep as "Target has -2 on all attacks that don't include the marker"


For example: if the 4E Adventure was written for level 1 players, you should run level 3 D&D Next players through it. with adjustments from above.
[TABLE="class: grid, width: 60"] [TR] [TD]4E
Level[/TD] [TD]D&D
Next
Level[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="align: center"]1[/TD] [TD="align: center"]3[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="align: center"]2[/TD] [TD="align: center"]3[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="align: center"]3[/TD] [TD="align: center"]4[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="align: center"]4[/TD] [TD="align: center"]4[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="align: center"]5[/TD] [TD="align: center"]5[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="align: center"]6[/TD] [TD="align: center"]5[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="align: center"]7[/TD] [TD="align: center"]6[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="align: center"]8[/TD] [TD="align: center"]7
[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="align: center"]9[/TD] [TD="align: center"]7[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="align: center"]10[/TD] [TD="align: center"]8[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="align: center"]11[/TD] [TD="align: center"]9
[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="align: center"]12[/TD] [TD="align: center"]9[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="align: center"]13[/TD] [TD="align: center"]10[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="align: center"]14[/TD] [TD="align: center"]10[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="align: center"]15[/TD] [TD="align: center"]11[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="align: center"]16[/TD] [TD="align: center"]12[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="align: center"]17[/TD] [TD="align: center"]13
[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="align: center"]18[/TD] [TD="align: center"]13[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="align: center"]19[/TD] [TD="align: center"]14[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="align: center"]20[/TD] [TD="align: center"]14[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="align: center"]21[/TD] [TD="align: center"]15[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="align: center"]22[/TD] [TD="align: center"]16[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="align: center"]23[/TD] [TD="align: center"]16[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="align: center"]24[/TD] [TD="align: center"]17[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="align: center"]25[/TD] [TD="align: center"]18[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="align: center"]26[/TD] [TD="align: center"]18[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="align: center"]27[/TD] [TD="align: center"]19[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="align: center"]28[/TD] [TD="align: center"]19
[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="align: center"]29[/TD] [TD="align: center"]20[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="align: center"]30[/TD] [TD="align: center"]20[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="align: center"]31[/TD] [TD="align: center"]
[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="align: center"]32[/TD] [TD="align: center"]
[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="align: center"]33[/TD] [TD="align: center"]
[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="align: center"]34[/TD] [TD="align: center"]
[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="align: center"]35[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] Doing this should allow D&D Next players to handle the 4E combats, the only thing that still needs be handled differently is how often the players get to rest, since I'm not sure how many resources will be drained by all the combats.

 

[jamesmanhattan]

So I tested this. So far, I've run the first encounter in Trollhaunt Warrens because I wanted to start in middle tier.


D&D Next party
Level 8 - Human Monk, Elf Druid, Human Fighter(maneuver based), Drow Bard


4E Encounter
There were 5 lvl 9 Brute Trolls, and 1 lvl 10 Oni Mage Elite Lurker. It was a level 11 Encounter, I removed 1 Troll because there were only 4 players not 5. (These are using the latest updated monsters in the Compendium from the "Monster Vault" etc, not from the module itself, because the module is outdated)


The Trolls and Oni Mage got +6 vs AC on melee attacks.
Troll AC was 12, The Oni Mage AC was 14. All HP were halved.




What's somewhat weird, is D&D Next Trolls all get Claw/Claw/Bite and these 4E Trolls only get a single attack every round. So the Fighter who can impose Disadvantage on an attack actually gets a bigger benefit.


In round 1 the Fighter moved up and engaged two trolls. The Bard cast Faerie Fire on three Trolls, which worked beautifully, they all granted Advantage.


The Oni Mage Lurker started off by going invisible. Then it moved closer.
The next round it managed to catch all the players in a Cone of Cold, which I made into a DC:12 Con saving throw. 2d8+12 dmg , half on a miss. He also caught a wounded Troll and wound up dropping it. All of the players stayed on their feet, as it was early on in the fight. The cone of cold imposed the Slowed (save ends) effect, so I treated just like in 4E.


Later on, the Troll rolled a critical Hit on the Monk, and I got worried he was going to die, but even starting wounded he could take the 3d6+6=24 damage. This "Bloodied" the Monk, which I had to note because the Troll gets a follow up attack on that trigger, but the Troll's follow up attack missed.


I noticed the Fighter couldn't actually tie up that many Trolls as a defender. He only had to hope they attacked him.


A few rounds in, only the Monk went after the Oni Mage, and did some damage but The Oni kept regenerating 5 each round, so I was really worried they wouldn't be able to kill it. So round 3 when it was the Oni Mage's turn and he had more than half its hit points left, it used its Action Point and kept swinging its sword because it wasn't worried enough to go Invisible. It dropped the Monk.


The Bard turned on his song of battle granting everyone a d6 of damage. This changed things drastically.


The Druid gave up its attacks and healed the Monk, then the Fighter used Spring Away (which I thought would never be used) to attack a Troll once, then move over to attack the Oni Mage. The Monk came back up and since he had to stand up, had to use a sling, but did a lot of damage thanks to the Bard Song. A Monk gets screwed when he has to switch to a missile weapon because he only gets one attack, since his extra attacks are tied to his flurry of blows, unlike the other classes.


The Druid came and attacked the Oni Mage with his Flame Blade - I ruled he could attack twice since they get Extra Attack at lvl 8. I wasn't sure about that though. And in 1 round, the Oni Mage went from having over half his HP to dead, and didn't get to use his Lightning Storm.


Resource wise, everyone got very wounded except the Fighter who was only slightly harmed from the Cone of Cold because no one could hit his AC, the Monk dropped once, the Bard used a lvl 1 spell, a level 2 Healing Word, the Druid used lvl 2 Flame Blade, and a lvl 3 Cure Wounds.
That's not including any spells that would still be needed to heal everyone up.
That seems like maybe a little too much resources for an "at-level" fight.

 

[jamesmanhattan]

I did more Solo testing, Sorry this is somewhat messy notes, and I will try to clean it up later.

lvl 18 Solo Black Dragon, vs lvl 12 D&D Next party of 4 players
Fighter, Bard, Monk, Druid
(Oops I realized at the end the dragon should have had reduced HP because only 4 person party maybe 306 instead of 338 HP )
This was testing if I say a lvl 12 party should be able to handle a level 16 4E adventure they have a good chance of facing Solos 2 levels higher than 16. Could they handle it?

round 1
dragon wins initiative by long margin with Dex 25(+7) modifier
charges instinctively
then goes again and does Shroud of Gloom

Bard casts faerie fire, dragon fails save (even with +7!)
fighter 2 misses w/advantage
monk 4 hits -1 ki
Druid - casts insect plague

round 2
dragon instinct misses, still does 20 from acid vulnerability to fighter

regular turn, breathes, hits two of them, half on miss still damages rest except monk - uncanny dodge
action point, hits fighter, uses defy death to remain at 1HP, he was only at -2

faerie fire is pretty much making attack rolls a joke
Bard, attacks twice, still heals with Swift action Cure Wounds
moves out of breath wpn range

Fighter, action surges, and even with that misses like 4 times.
sees that all his maneuvers are useless, prone would hurt his ranged allies, doesnt care about Reactions, doesnt need to move it
Does drive the Dragon back 10 feet to assist allies from getting breathed on

monk circles around back to make breath weapon harder
Bloodies dragon, dragon chooses to breath on fighter and druid
fighter again goes to 0, but makes Defy Death saving throw

Druid thinks about healing Fighter but thinks Defy Death is working great
Blinds Dragon with Sunbeam and 25 damage

round 3
Blind Dragon instinct turn,
misses fighter, still does 10 acid damage on miss, Fighter makes Defy Death save
misses two claw attacks
Action points even though blind, and bites at monk, misses, still does 20 acid damage due to vulnerability

Bard swift Heals Fighter 3rd lvl Cure Wounds, misses twice

Fighter hits,
bloodied dragon starts bleeding 10 acid damage on monk and fighter who are vulnerable so 20

Monk sees if he hits will kill himself, so does Wholeness of Body

Druid does Blight for 25 damage
Fighter takes acid damage from dragon bleeding, fails Defy Death

round 4
Instinct Dragon misses Monk, still does 20 dmg from vulnerability
no recharge breath
Misses Bard, but still does 20 dmg from vulnerability, drops Bard
Dragon still has 91HP left from 338 starting
2 men down

Monk gives fighter potion, hoping for future good Defy Death rolls
Druid uses 4th lvl Cure Wounds on Monk, for 29HP
Dragon bites Fighter, imposes Disadvantage, misses still does acid damage, fighter makes Defy save


Still no breath recharge, this is round 4
2 Claw, hits fighter who makes save, misses Monk

Bard unconscious
Fighter hits, acid splashes and fighter fails save is down.
Monk hits with 4 hits, still not dead, has 39 HP left
Druid Blight again fails save and does 33 Dmg,

(I had to rule that dragon only bleeds once per round because it got ridiculous

Dragon bit Monk, and monk goes down,
Dragon recharged breath, breathed on Druid, who was vulnerable, who actually stayed standing amazingly. only one left.
dragon closes in on druid and left insect cloud

Druid knows that his spells do half even on a miss, and DM gives away how hurt dragon is, so uses one more Blight at level 5 dragon fails and dies, but would have died if it had made save

This dragon was bleeding acid all over the place, and it caused a lot of trouble. I had to rule that it only bled once per turn. I also completely ignored its Immediate Reaction Tail Strike the entire fight, since everyone was making multiple attacks, there were going to be many more misses, I deemed it not fair.

 

[jamesmanhattan]

because I messed up the dragons HP, and it freaking bleeds acid all the time so I tried a different Solo, there was only one of the “new” style solos at level 18.
Level 18 Solo Controller - Water Drake (Dark Sun)
adjust HP down by 1/5th because there are 4 players, so Drake had 272HP from 340HP
Fighter, Bard, Monk, Druid

rd 1
drake wins init

opens with Orb of Boiling Water, hits 3 of 4
creates psionic clone,

monk goes, whacks psionic clone killing it, keeps moving and hits drake 3 times spending a ki point

fighter comes up and hits twice.
Druid casts sunbeam to hope to blind it, drake makes save takes half 12 dmg
bard swift heals self 4d8+2 and turns on bard song

rnd 2
drake
psionic clone does not recharge
bites at monk, fighter imposes disadvantage, still hits! for 29dmg! monk still stands
claws fighter, claws monk, drops the monk
Action points!
bite claw claw at fighter, he stays up
Fighter hits once, Action Surges hits 1 and CRITS! for 28 (drake is still not bloodied)

Druid casts lvl 4 cure wds on Monk, restores 40HP
Bard swift casts lvl3 cure wds on fighter for 23HP, shoots bow twice, misses both

rd 3
drake still no recharge anything
bite at monk, fighter disadvantages him, misses
2 claws at fighter, 1 hits
spends last action point,
fighter is wounded, so bites fighter hits, and 1 claw fighter, 1 claw monk just to be nice.
drops fighter to 0, fighter fails Defy Death save

Monk supreme flurries and +1 attack (2 ki points), bloodies the drake
who uses orb of boiling water, and amazingly monk and bard remain standing
but both realize they will die on start of their turns from the 10 dmg

drudi wishes he had a ranged heal spell, moves and casts lvl 4 cure wds on bard
bard moves and heals monk, then shoots bow twice, hits once

rd 4
drake focuses on monk, bite claw claw and drops him anyway
summons psionic clone, and no one is there to kill it
clone goes to town on bard, but only hits with bite! bard survives

drudi calls lvl 4 lightning 5d10, both drake and clone make their save
bard swift heals fighter because he has good chance at staying up, heal heal heal then shoots bow twice kills clone, and hits drake once

rd 5
drake no recharge
drake bites fighter, imposes disadvantage, it saves him, both claws miss also!
druid lightning, hits for 17dmg

rd6
drake recharges clone
bites at fighter, disadvantage, and still hits! drops fighter to 0, he makes defy death save
unfortunately claw hits him and he doesn't make the defy death save this time.
misses monk with other claw

Monk crits on his opening salvo, spending 2 ki points to supreme flurry with Advantage,
punches the clone, killing it just to be safe
hits drake,
hits drake with last final blow killing the drake.

Wow, lots of healing, lots of up and down, lots of resources spent, but they did it.

Druid went through all 1 level 6 spell, all 3 level 4 spells, but no level 5 spells
Bard went through all 3 level 3 spells, all 3 level 2 spells

Conclusion:
This would have been a Solo that was two levels higher than the target 4E party, so it was intended to be a very tough fight. These D&D Next players managed to survive. I consider this a success.

 

[jamesmanhattan]

Ran the one-shot in dungeonMag#218 “The Dawn of Night”
It's for six level 1 4th edition players.
I ran it using 6 Drow level 3 D&D Next characters, making them as close as possible to the pregens (which actually came extremely close!)


The module went swimmingly. The final combat turned out really well. Those dwarves were brutal. The Cleric cast Hold Person and stopped the Sun Priest from acting for a round. Having the dwarves appear in and around the party caused a lot of difficulty. The party’s soft targets couldn’t handle the damage the dwarf guards dished out. At AC 14 those Soldiers felt very hard to hit. The cleric, mage, and ranger all went down. The Paladin didn’t get hit. He put his Oath of Vengeance on the Sun Priest. The Slayer Fighter crit the sun priest on a 19. The rogue hid, and only by hiding was she able to give a potion to bring the cleric back. The Cleric cast Prayer of Healing with turned out very strong, bringing back up the mage, and the ranger, and boosting everyone else by a lot. The Paladin supremely turned the tide by casting Cause Fear, as he was surrounded by 4 dwarf guards. Having 2 guards be Frightened made things easier as they had Disadvantage on attacks. The Paladin also boosting himself with Divine Power, they died easily, he turned out to be the star of the whole show.
The Cleric was a Warpriest and had a nova round on a poor dwarf using her Channel Divinity and War Priest extra attack and managed to save the Ranger who had been caught in melee the entire fight.
It felt very exciting and went back and forth between winning and losing, and damage all felt really appropriate from both sides.

 

[jamesmanhattan]

double post

 

[transtemporal]

Sorry to necro a topic guys, but this is the only thread I could find specifically about converting 4e monsters to 5e. My question is, is this conversion guide still relevant or has the landscape shifted since Nov 2013?

 

[MetricChaos]

Sorry to necro a topic guys, but this is the only thread I could find specifically about converting 4e monsters to 5e. My question is, is this conversion guide still relevant or has the landscape shifted since Nov 2013?

It still holds up, I hope this guide gets more attention.

 

[Quickleaf]

I tested this out, comparing a 4th edition Ogre Savage to a 5th edition Ogre.

1. Leave damage for all monsters unchanged.
Ogre Savage deals 10 (6-15) damage. 5e Ogre deals 13 (6-20) damage. Roughly comparable.

2. Cut all monster's HP in half. Easy, since you can just use the Bloodied value that is already printed.
Ogre Savage has 111 HP; halved that's 55 HP. 5e Ogre has 59 HP. Very comparable.

3. Divide the 4E Level by 5, rounded normally. You'll use this for a few things. Its like the Proficiency bonus.
Ogre Savage is level 8, which divided by 5 and rounded normally is 2. This works out to the +2 Proficiency bonus for the 5e Ogre. Checks out.

4. AC = Level/5+12 (Add+2 for Soldier, -2 for Brutes)
Ogre Savage is a brute. Level 8 divided by 5 is 1... +12 is 13... -2 for brute is 11. What's the 5e Ogre's AC? 11. Checks out.

5. Attack bonus = Level/5 +4 (add+2 for Artillery and Soldiers)
8 divided by 5 is +1 or +2... +4 is +5 or +6 total. 5e Ogre has +6 to hit. Checks out.

7. The Stats: STR,DEX,CON etc. keep as they are. (The cap is roughly 30 for extremely high level 4E monsters so it should work out).
The problem is you'll have to work out what the bonuses are since 4E adds half-level to all the printed bonuses. You can subtract half-level from the printed bonus.
Ogre Savage has STR 21, CON 21, DEX 11. 5e Ogre has STR 19, CON 16, and DEX 8. Roughly comparable.

At a cursory glance, looks like it holds up. Nice work @jamesmanhattan!