Attempt at fang dragon shaman

[roderickvd]

Hey everybody!

I'm looking to adapt the PHB2 dragon shaman class to fit in a fang dragon as totem dragon. The PHB2 hints at its possibility but does not provide any solutions. Reaching a solution seems troublesome because the fang dragon has a ability draining bite instead of a breath weapon and doesn't have an "energy type" like true dragons do.

Here's my attempt at modification, looking forward to your reactions:

Additional Class Skills: Bluff, Jump, Survival. (This I'm sure of; see the PGtF Web Enhancement.)

Draconic Auras:

Energy Shield: Any creature striking you or your ally with a natural attack or a nonreach melee weapon is dealt 2 points of temporary Constitution damage for each point of your aura bonus.

Resistance: Resistance to temporary Constitution damage and permanent Constitution drain equal to +5 times your aura bonus.

Draconic Adaptation: Ventriloquism (Sp): As the spell (at will).

Replace Breath Weapon with Ability Drain (Su): At 4th level, you pick up the Fang Dragon's bite that permanently drains Constitution points if you are grappling. While grappling, you can attempt to damage your opponent for the standard nonlethal damage, while at the same time draining a number of Constitution points equal to 1d3, plus 1d2 for every two additional class levels. A successful Fortitude save negates the drain; the save DC is equal to 8 + 1/2 your dragon shaman level + your Con modifier.

Energy Immunity: At 9th level, you gain immunity to temporary Constitution damage and permanent Constitution drain.

A few quick notes:

• http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=662862 suggests giving the fang dragon shaman a tail. I think that'd be too much of a physical change: the shaman isn't a half-dragon or such.
• Finally, I liked the idea of the fang dragon "pecking" his prey and converting his bite to a humanoid character, but some threads suggested that a human jaw just wasn't fit for dealing damage that way, and that it'd be better to opt for grappling damage. Hence the bite while grappling.

So what do you think?

 

[Nifft]

I like the direction you've taken. I think the energy immunity replacement is perfect! Also, totally agree about the tail.

Here's what I'd do for the breath weapon replacement:

Wounding Strike (Su): Starting at 4th level, the Fang Dragon Shaman can inflict Con damage with a successful melee strike. He inflicts one point of Con damage at 4th level, plus one per 1d6 his breath weapon would normally inflict (so 1 points at 4th level, 2 points at 6th level, etc., up to 9 points at 20th level). He decides to inflict this damage after he has hit with a melee attack. Once he has used his Wounding Strike, he must wait 1d4 rounds before he can do so again.

... and that may be too strong.

The ability to deal Con damage is strong. The ability to deal a lot of Con damage is really strong, in exactly the opposite way that a breath weapon is strong: one BBEG vs. lots of minions.

Your Con damage method is more damage, but less convenience, and pigeon-holes the Dragon Shaman as a grappler.

- - -

Energy Resistance Aura: replace with Preserving Aura: when you or your allies would take Con damage (or drain), the damage (or drain) is reduced by a number equal to your aura bonus, to a minimum of 0.

Energy Shield Aura: 2 points of energy damage equals 2 points of Con damage?!? No way. Make it one point of untyped damage per point of your aura, and it's solid.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Angel Tarragon]

Fang Dragons Rock!

I totally love Fang Dragons. Great ideas. Thanks for sharing.

 

[roderickvd]

I like the direction you've taken. I think the energy immunity replacement is perfect! Also, totally agree about the tail.

Thanks!

Here's what I'd do for the breath weapon replacement:

Wounding Strike (Su): Starting at 4th level, the Fang Dragon Shaman can inflict Con damage with a successful melee strike. He inflicts one point of Con damage at 4th level, plus one per 1d6 his breath weapon would normally inflict (so 1 points at 4th level, 2 points at 6th level, etc., up to 9 points at 20th level). He decides to inflict this damage after he has hit with a melee attack. Once he has used his Wounding Strike, he must wait 1d4 rounds before he can do so again.

... and that may be too strong.

The ability to deal Con damage is strong. The ability to deal a lot of Con damage is really strong, in exactly the opposite way that a breath weapon is strong: one BBEG vs. lots of minions.

Your Con damage method is more damage, but less convenience, and pigeon-holes the Dragon Shaman as a grappler.

Great insight. Indeed the dragon shaman shouldn't be pushed into grappling. I also agree that the damage should be dealt to a single opponent like the fang dragon, and that it should compensate for its lack of area.

One thing I can't figure out yet is picturing how the damage would be dealt. The wounding strike you're describing almost seems an ability a monk would have, but usually a dragon shaman will be slinging around with weapons. But would he "transfer" his Con damage using his blade? And do an additional 1d6 damage? Are we talking some sort of critical here, but such that the opponent's very constitution is damaged beyond repair? This is what doesn't feel right to me.

How do you feel about this?

(Also, should it be damage or drain? I think drain. The breath weapon is a potent characteristic of true dragons, and the fang's replacement should be equally potent. Also, note the drain damage and DC progression of the fang's bite.)

Energy Resistance Aura: replace with Preserving Aura: when you or your allies would take Con damage (or drain), the damage (or drain) is reduced by a number equal to your aura bonus, to a minimum of 0.

Agreed.

Energy Shield Aura: 2 points of energy damage equals 2 points of Con damage?!? No way. Make it one point of untyped damage per point of your aura, and it's solid.

You're saying one point of untyped ability damage? I think it should be Con to keep it in line with the fang's characteristics. Otherwise I agree -- it'll balance out with true dragon shamans on higher levels. Initially, 1 point of Con damage won't matter much to an opponent, but later when 4x 2 hp damage (for true dragon shamans) surely won't drop an opponent, 4 Con damage surely will hurt.

 

[Nifft]

One thing I can't figure out yet is picturing how the damage would be dealt. The wounding strike you're describing almost seems an ability a monk would have, but usually a dragon shaman will be slinging around with weapons. But would he "transfer" his Con damage using his blade?

I figured the convenience of adding Con damage to any melee attack (sword, longspear, unarmed strike) would make up for the lack of range and area.

The idea is that, if the Dragon Shaman hits with his weapon, he deals normal melee damage plus some Con damage as specified in the ability.

(Also, should it be damage or drain? I think drain. The breath weapon is a potent characteristic of true dragons, and the fang's replacement should be equally potent. Also, note the drain damage and DC progression of the fang's bite.)

Hmm... how about normally it's Con damage, but on a natural 20 it's permanent Con drain?

That handles the critical case nicely, and allows NPC Fang Dragon Shaman to be decent opponents which don't necessarily require the big guns (like restoration) to heal.

You're saying one point of untyped ability damage?

Oh no! Just plain untyped hit point damage (for the energy aura)! Sorry for being unclear.

Untyped hit point damage is significantly stronger at high levels (when every other opponent can be expected to resist 10 points of most energy types), so even dealing half the normal damage is a power-up.

 

[roderickvd]

I figured the convenience of adding Con damage to any melee attack (sword, longspear, unarmed strike) would make up for the lack of range and area.

The idea is that, if the Dragon Shaman hits with his weapon, he deals normal melee damage plus some Con damage as specified in the ability.

Right -- I misread. I like the idea, especially because a dragon shaman can then opt to use an extended reach weapon and even get some of the "area effect". Choice is good!

Hmm... how about normally it's Con damage, but on a natural 20 it's permanent Con drain?

That handles the critical case nicely, and allows NPC Fang Dragon Shaman to be decent opponents which don't necessarily require the big guns (like restoration) to heal.

...

Oh no! Just plain untyped hit point damage (for the energy aura)! Sorry for being unclear.

Untyped hit point damage is significantly stronger at high levels (when every other opponent can be expected to resist 10 points of most energy types), so even dealing half the normal damage is a power-up.

Good thinking.

So, to summarize:

Additional Class Skills: Bluff, Jump, Survival

Draconic Auras (Su):

Replace Energy Shield with Vengeful Shield: Any creature striking you or your ally with a natural attack or a nonreach melee weapon is dealt 1 hp damage for each point of your aura bonus.

Resistance: When you or your ally are dealt Constitution damage or drain, reduce the Constitution points damaged or drained by a number equal to your aura bonus, to a minimum of 0.

Draconic Adaptation: Ventriloquism (Sp): As the spell (at will).

Replace Breath Weapon with Wounding Strike (Su): At 4th level, you pick up the Fang Dragon's ability to deal Constitution damage or even drain Constitution points. On a successful melee attack, you may decide to use your wounding strike. If you do, you deal damage as normal as well as damage a number of Constitution points equal to two times your aura bonus. On a successful critical attack, the points damaged turn into points drained. After having used your wounding strike, you have to wait 1d4 rounds before you can use it again.

Energy Immunity: At 9th level, you gain immunity to temporary Constitution damage and permanent Constitution drain.

 

[roderickvd]

Reflecting on the list, I think that the qualities of the fang dragon shaman really start showing on higher level play. On lower levels, a red dragon shaman continuously dealing 2 hp fire damage with his energy shield, and gaining +5 resistance to fire damage himself seems unbeatable. But the fang dragon shaman's Con damage and resistance won't be that decisive in lower level encounters, and lessen his attractiveness in that sense. Wouldn't you agree?

 

[Nifft]

I dunno. The 1 point of untyped energy damage hurts everything, so that's attractive from the get-go.

The immunity to Con damage is situational -- and less commonly needed than the Fire resistance -- but Fire resistance is easy to get, and Con damage is amazingly deadly. (Wraith, I'm looking at you.)


Ooo, one thing I think we miscommunicated on: I'd intended the Con damage from the Wounding Strike to scale from 1 or 2 at 4th level to 8 or 9 at 20th level. Let's have it inflict double your Aura in Con damage. That way it's always an even number, so the foe will always take a lot of HP damage, no matter if his Con is odd or even.

He's always going to shine more against a single high-HD foe, so he's going to be less useful against a hoard of foes than against one big foe. He's going to be useless against swarms.

For the rest of it, he's like any other Dragon Shaman -- Aura of Vigor is strong, Aura of Power is juicy, etc.

Cheers, -- N

 

[roderickvd]

It's settled then! I adjusted the Wounded Strike as you suggested.
I'm really liking what we drew up, thanks for all your input.